Trans Issues In Sports/Society

The problem is, a lot of them don’t want to, because (as mentioned above in this thread), men are assholes.

If you want to bring new women into poker, you have women’s tourneys where they feel comfortable and reasonably assured that they aren’t going to get hit on, stared at creepily, cussed out and called names by misogynists, or targeted by asshats who just want to beat the girl.

Unless you’re an experienced and utterly jaded player (like I am), a lot of those things can really rattle you, and it’s nice to be able to get away from it for one tournament.

As for retaining women in poker (meaning, moving them out of the women’s tournament space and into open events), my answer is always, “stake them.”

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I’m embarrassed to admit that as an ignorant male I didn’t even consider any of that. But it makes perfect sense. Sucks women are subjected to any of that and even worse, that it can go unnoticed by men like me

I specifically listed those four things because they have happened to me personally. I’ve never been physically molested/assaulted at the poker table, but I know it happens, as well.

The thing is, most women just suck it up and take it. And then most women just leave and never come back. We’re conditioned not to complain. Not that the assholes listen to us anyway. That’s why having male allies at the table is so powerful. If you see something, speak up.

Me? when I get called a fucking slut after felting some loser, or told that there’s no way someone so fat and ugly and annoying could be married(after I felted some loser), I usually just end up laughing really hard because I’m the last person who’s going to get offended by that. Of course, that’s just me and I cannot expect most women to be the same.

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Now you’re the Real Sexist!

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Me from like 20 years ago would probably have said something very similar.

I very likely still have blind spots for racism and sexism that I don’t even realize exist.

Here’s my main issue with a trans-ban. It’s a systemic solution in search of a systemic problem, and there are real-world, catastrophic costs to going that route which would need to be mitigated by real-world, glittering benefits. And I just don’t see it.

I’ve worked with teens my whole career. Oftentimes trans kids will come into counseling because mom & dad are told kid has “some anxiety” and in reality kid is trans and knows discussing it with their bigoted parents is emotionally unsafe. They’re often bullied by everyone at school each day for being different, they have limited if any meaningful social connections, they’re ostracized by the church (assuming they ever felt connected in that setting to begin with), etc etc. They’re just alone, presenting as if they’re someone they’re not while in public, and generally fucking miserable. Something horrible like a third of trans kids will have attempted suicide by the time they’re 18 yo, just to put in perspective how straight miserable this group of people are.

So if transgender kids are fortunate enough to have found themselves participating on a team where they experience a sense of belonging and camaraderie, and suddenly that resource is ripped away from them due to a ban of some kind, then rest assured you’re going to have a massive uptick in suicide attempts not only among American children, but in one of the most disadvantaged and at-risk groups of American children. Let that sink in because it’s a stone cold fact. Let it be uncomfortable (assuming you’re a ban advocate). Just sit with it.

That’s the lens I’m looking at this through, and morally it’s the lens you should be looking at it through too. I guess a systemic problem would be something like a sport where the top 1% of athletes are majority transgender, or a majority of major records in a sport are being held by transgender athletes, or podiums at X Olympic sport are being routinely populated by multiple transgender athletes. But you know what? That isn’t happening, and as such this whole conversation shouldn’t be happening. It’s like the ugliest cart-before-horse fiasco that’s ever been posed.

But if I’m being 100% honest, even if it WAS happening I’d STILL not entertain the conversation. Why? Because I don’t give any fucks at all about competitive swimming, and I care deeply about the mental health and wellbeing of American children; the costs would still massively outweigh the benefits. Let kids in dire need of support swim in the fucking pool with their friends, are you kidding me with this shit? How hateful do you have to be to cape-up on the Darth Vader side of this cause?!

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There’s a lot of good commentary in this article on the critical moment we are in re: trans rights.

Why not weight classes, like boxing? Swimming is also a sport that requires a combination of strength and technique, so there’s a natural advantage involved if you’re blessed with size. Weight class system would maybe be the best win for everyone? So like women’s featherweight swimming, women’s lightweight swimming, etc.

What if they want trans-excluded sports? Is the rationale good enough then?

Maybe! As I’ve been saying all along, it depends. What is the best all around competitive environment all things considered? It’s not an easy question to answer. Women wanting to exclude men is good enough because, and sit down because this may shock and astound you, men have been kind of treating women like shit since approximately forever. I’m not going to pretend that the entire history (and present) of gender relations didn’t (isn’t) happening just so I can claim a clean logical argument.

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I think its important to note that whatever arguments you have against trans people in sports, whether they be good, bad, or other, expressing them at this point in time does little other than give people like this ammunition (somehow I mean that literally in the year 2022)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ashtonpittman/status/1507482156821536770?s=20&t=8XVkgoHeW8DiLXwGFm3NAg

He doesnt care about womens sports. He doesnt care about women period. He wont even be alone in the same room as one. All he cares about is cruelty and pain towards those he deems sinful. He will take allieship from anyone so long as that allie says “Trans people should have less rights than everyone else.”

I mentioned earlier that I hope those who are on the con side of this issue will look back in ten years and feel great shame, and I still stand by that, but I think its really important that you all know just how bad the people you are supporting are, regardless of whether you intend to provide support to them in any way.

I dont think anybody in this thread has even an ounce of desire to be in the same bucket as that man. I know none of you hate trans kids or want their suicidality rate higher, or want to line up their supporters for a firing squad. I 100% know that none of you feel that way in the slightest. But you have to understand that when you line up behind the con stance on this issue you ARE supporting him and the things he wants whether you want to be or not. You cannot seperate the two right now. Maybe in time, once a transgender person is accepted as a full person to the majority of the country, then we can discuss whether elite athletes should need to have some kind of test tp determine where they belong, but not now. Cause right now A) it isnt a problem in any staistical sense, and B) people like him are waiting to gobble up your support and say “Look, even those on the left think this is maddness. We must not let these MEN destroy the lives of our girls.”

Do not support this man. I dont care if you intend to support him or not. A strong stance on no trans athletes in female sports is a direct support of this guy. They will use it, and they will committ atrocities with it.

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https://twitter.com/mattglantz/status/1512881475653451784?s=21&t=HCwzL7QwE3F3VZ782Uz9uQ

https://twitter.com/SamGreenwoodRIO/status/1513176406519422980?s=20&t=ym2zR7--g6LuR3J-N3j5Lg

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How do you talk to someone like this?

https://twitter.com/MattGlantz/status/1513189120599855115?s=20&t=8R1s3MOOo_bHB4IuwEUVPQ

When a white guy says voter ID makes sense it’s just means they are incapable of complex thought deeper than headlines.

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Voter ID would make sense if we had a mandatory national ID card and registered everyone to vote like in Canada.

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I think voter ID makes sense in a vacuum.

The problem is that we are not in a vacuum and a lot of people don’t understand what fills the void. They could be stupid. They could also just be uninformed.

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Right, that would be a scenario where the purpose of Voter ID would be to facilitate voting by just making the whole process more efficient. But US voter ID laws are designed to make it harder for certain people to vote.

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australia imposes a small fine for failing to vote. i’m against voter id, because in practice many forms of id work just fine. i’m however for small fines to encourage voting. which is a bit contradictory although it is because i value the right to vote as far more valuable than a small fine.