Should trans women have access to these same opportunities? If so, how would they compete for them?
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Exactly
And Iâm not labeling you transphobic. Itâs an honest question. If you are a trans ally, you recognize that trans women are women, and therefore should have the same access to womenâs rights issues as every other woman.
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But again, does this same high school girl that gets her ass kicked by another high school girl who has naturally higher levels of testosterone go running to the right wing press about how unfair that is? It cant be both ways. Why does Phelps get a natural advantage by having gills and gets hailed as a hero, while Jenny the trans woman gets ostracized after taking hormones to put a damper on her natural advantage?
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Why should trans women not have the opportunities to go after these scholarships and pro aspirations?
Iâm specifically using trans women here and not trans individuals because you NEVER hear about trans men being some exestensial crisis to the sanctity of sport.
Theres a reason for that.
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you are right, i donât think of divisions as back of the bus, although obviously some schools will probably short-bus the trans athletes into an awful experience. iâm just talking about the immediate problem of kids need a place to play sports.
i am talking about something closer to distinction like JV sports in hs or club sports in college, which exists both separately and together with other sports within athletic departments and serves as a decent bridge level for students, even as as they grow into adult sports.
Has anyone bothered to tabulate the statistics for the number of trans people of either gender who compete at sports at the high school or college level and are unremarkable? Because pointing at isolated instances of trans people winning isnât a compelling argument unless they represent a big percentage of trans competitors. If there are a lot of trans people out there competing and amounting to little more than the likewise unremarkable cis competitors, then that undermines the argument that theyâre unfair in a pretty big way.
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The harm of this social differentiation far outweighs the harm of them playing in the main league though.
Remember trans people are already subject to massive amounts of social stigma and pressure all around their gender identity. Creating groups to segregate them due to their gender identity can only make this far worse.
This especially true when compared to the essentially zero harm created by them being part of the main league.
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i havenât dealt with the problem of scholarships, etc, although i think the profit motive probably isnât the problem youth sports governing bodies should immediately regulate nor cater to.
i imagine when competitive trans divisions appear at hs/college level, they will be smaller, but trans hs athletes will eventually be offered scholarships and pro deals. i could be wrong, but i donât feel itâs necessary denying access to opportunities.
i think we can let track and field athletes all compete in the same time on the same stadium to help with the stigma, but award different medals. you are close to changing my mind though.
Right, this is the point Iâm making with the Phelps comparisons. Iâm sure there are plenty of middle of the road trans athletes but we never hear about them. But one spectacular athlete who was born male and transitioned to female now all of a sudden cant play sports because shes good? If thatâs the case why isnt Phelps disqualified after winning every possible swimming race imaginable. Whatâs the point of competing at all when its nearly foregone that he walks away with the gold?
And if the answer is something like âany given sundayâ then why arent good trans athletes given the same response?
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I mean, womens sports get fuck all coverage as it is. Will there also be pro trans leagues? If so, will they get ANY mainstream coverage?
Yeah this would be super interesting.
I was kind looking at it zoomed out super far, that trans make up about .6% of the population, and obviously a tiny fraction compete in sports. Probably a lot less than usual because of the stigma which does suck, but still considering that the amount that are able to rise up and dominate in sports is an outlier in and of itself.
But yeah we need actual studies.
This is worth a read.
vast majority of pro sports get niche coverage at best. itâs not a stretch to say that being best transwoman shotputter will be the same as being the best ciswoman shotputter.
with respect to mainstream sports coverage. i have to correct myself because i was in the middle of reading the ACLU link, and yes their experiences will be significantly different
Honestly I donât know if there are all that many trans athletes. The trans stigma is so strong that, especially at the high school level, I would expect most kids would end up transitioning later after theyâre out on their own, and there wonât be much historical data to build on because trans acceptance wasnât really a thing until pretty recently.
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This economic argument rings so hollow too. It never accounts for the economic impact of millions of trans people dropping out of school or committing suicide.
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Honestly my final take is I should not have any fucking say in this at all and neither should a bunch of cis males and it should be left up to transgenders, cis women, science, and sports governing bodies.
Outside of this obviously the way society treats transgenders is horrific and despicable and we should be pouring a ton of resources into making life easier for them.
I also know several transgender woman and men, none of them athletes though. What I do know that made their lives infinitely better was finding our loving and accepting community. Theyâre allowed to be theirselves with us, no judging, no hate, just love. Thats what they really need.
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I could see an argument for limiting at pro level as those are private leagues with adults who get paid, but prohibiting a few trans high schoolers from playing sports is crazy. No one is going to pretend to be trans just to dominate womenâs high school sports and the damage to trans kids by shaming them out of sports >>>>>>> the minimal impact to competition.
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I think this is a good take except for the last four words. Arenât those gonna be predominantly cis white males?