I don’t think urinals should be in the women’s bathroom.
If that’s the same argument that was made in the bathroom debate, guilty as charged. Similarly, I think making all bathrooms unisex wouldn’t be a good solution.
I’m shocked that a forum of men would have similar thoughts and blind spots tho.
“Im shocked that this strawman is so flimsy flamsy, shocked!”
Bro, you’re saying my arguments are actually totally unrelated arguments and I need to own it.
I thought the point is that men are typically stronger than women of their size.
Not that all women are the same strength.
They are.
Obviously they are not.
I mean, the story says the WNBA operates at a “significant loss” at $12 million last year. Do you know how many garbage NBA players made $12 million or more last year? Its like a quarter of the league!
$12 million is pocket change to the NBA and its players. There are multiple players a year bought out of their contracts for more.
Excellent argument. Totally not transphobic. Your intentions are pure I’m sure.
Sure.
For an individual business, year after year, that’s a significant loss (with no reason for profit to be on the horizon). You saw ESPN ditch Grantland and other companies similarly no longer emphasize prestige product lines. NFL eschewing NFL Europe just came to mind (Kurt Warner, Brad Johnson, etc played there). It’s not significant to the NBA atm, but if their long-term bottom line started cratering for some reason?
Shaq wasn’t “that dominant” because of the rules in that era and his FT limitations. “Hack a Shaq” led to a gigantic rule change! If the rules changed 10 years earlier or he could hit 85% of FT like Embiid, he would have been close to a GOAT level player instead of a tier and a half behind.
Really uneasy about how we elevate the genetically lucky male athletes vs how we talk about trans athletes. Giannis nickname is “the Greek freak” and that’s a compliment!
ESPN didn’t ditch grant land because of $. They ditched it because their president who loved Bill got replaced by one who didn’t. 5 years later The Ringer, which was Grantland 2.0 is sold for $250 million to Spotify. Seems like a bad business decision by ESPN iyam
I actually thought about it and wondered what amount of transitioning females would idealize a bathroom that retained urinals.
That’s setting to the side everyone else. I don’t know how to approach it. A single unisex bathroom? It’s tough to anticipate what any one individual would want, and then how to weigh that against the desires of the majority. I settled on them wanting to be accepted as what they aspire to be instead of catering to some half-measure and illuminating their difference. But again I’m sure I’m ignorant to most everything there despite my best efforts, that’s why all I generally was interested in commenting on was sports and why I don’t venture into many other threads outside of lurking. Again, why I wasn’t a fan of being painted into other corners.
I understand you punching up your whole life so won’t take anything personally nor overly try to defend myself. Castigating me undoubtedly silences debate tho.
You dont know how to approach it? Yet youve thought about it for a few minutes? And yet you still have strong opinions?
Man. Yeah. Gonna be so dissapointing if this debate gets silenced.
K, you win.
Bigot heading off to the gym. Already hating myself for wasting time here.
No one transitioning is idealising any kind of bathroom accept one where they can pee without getting punched in the face. Again, your uninformed and tone deaf focus here is on everything accept what actually matters.
Skinner.jpeg “its the trans folks that are wrong!”
The bottom line is no amount of change to cis female sport, real or imagined, comes close to the harm caused by these transphobic laws.
Think how close this is to “I’m ok with gay people, just not the ones who act all flamboyant”
How about we don’t try to measure peoples gender identity given we know that is exactly the social pressure that causes all the harm. Trans people spend so much of their mental energy worrying if they pass as female or male enough.
These are bad questions that cause real harm.
You may or may not be right, but you’re going to have to show your work if you want to invoke utilitarian-type arguments.
If 0.5% of women are trans, and only a small percentage of those are interested in participating in sports, then the number that come to harm is very small. And the number who are suicidal are smaller still.
The other 99.5% of women would only have to experience on average ~1/200th the harm per individual from a particular policy to experience more aggregate harm than the average trans woman. I don’t know that one can automatically assume that.
When you are talking about such a small population, any appeals to “amount of harm” are tough to convincingly make. It’s much better to stick to morality based arguments which seek to prove something is right or wrong, no matter how much harm you cause.
We can’t have a conversation if we don’t even agree what we are talking about.
I think that for some in this thread
trans women = all non XX women identifying as trans women
And for others
trans women = all non XX women identifying as trans women who are on hormones.
I’m being a dick for asking people to clarify what they mean?
Im not an expert enough to know all the answers, it has to start with some combination of trans representatives, medical advice and sports specific experts.
If i had to take a punt on what broad roughly looks like. Its some combination of
All amateur, school and non contact sport we just take peoples word for it, with some judgement reserved to weed out bad faith attempts to troll.
Contact sports likely need their own guidelines, but caveated that this is probably not that needed, especially in sports where athletes can compete at their own level. I.e. if a trans woman is doing well in low grade rugby, she would likely just move to a higher more competitive league.
Noting that there are real concerns in ametaur contact sport about facing much larger, stronger opponents that need to be managed for everyone, not just trans athletes. Its why some kids rugby will force larger kids to play up an age group.
Professional sports likewise you can make the case for some controls. At the top end only. Imposing some sort of testing or treatment here is probably less intrusive.
All of this should be led by some kind of trans sports best practice principles that prioritise the safety of trans people first. Im sure that most sports already have something published by trans groups, if not adopted by governing bodies.