Ahh, so it is. Carry on.
I would say your proposed situation has no historical precedent.
Happy to be corrected, but my understanding of the chain of events was:
November 1972 - Nixon wins reelection in a landslide, bringing Agnew with him.
October 1973 - Spiro Agnew pleads no contest to criminal charges of tax evasion and money laundering, part of a negotiated resolution to a scheme in which he accepted $29,500 in bribes while governor of Maryland. He is removed via 25th amendment, the first time a VP is removed/replaced via that amendment, for something that wasnât even related to being VP. Ah, a witch hunt if Trump ever saw one lol.
The unanimous (save for three lone Democrats) replacement was Gerald Ford.
At this time, Nixon still has a lot of public support but is losing political support internally so rapidly that some say as soon as Ford was sworn in, Nixon essentially distanced himself from anything but hoping to escape a similar fate as Agnew.
November 1973 - Nixon promises to the American people not only do they deserve to know whether their president is a crook, âI AM NOT A CROOK.â In a way, he mirrors Trump, or Trump mirrors him, when he finishes by saying, âI earned everything I got.â
December 1973 - Ford is sworn in.
Early 1974 - The Watergate investigation continues, with political rivals and journalists convinced that the conversations by the president are impeachable, but the White House continues to stonewall.
April 1974 - In a last ditch effort replicated by Trump, Nixon orders that transcripts be released showing that he is innocent. Officials declare the transcripts are incomplete.
May 1974 - Congress begins impeachment proceedings.
July 1974 - The Supreme Court rules unanimously (interesting to speculate whether weâd get a majority or unanimous decision with grumpy) that the full tapes be released, not just selected transcripts
July through August 1974 - Congress adds a multitude of charges to impeachment, including (hey, more parallels!!!) accusing Nixon of tax avoidance, the very thing that led to his previous VP being removed.
In a move I can never ever see Trump agreeing to, Nixon paid almost half a million dollars in back taxes, hoping that would save him.
August 5 1974 - thanks to the Supreme Court decision, a new tape comes out revealing the depth of Nixonâs involvement. Senators let him know he has at most 15 votes chambered (heh). Nothing close to the 34 he needs to stay in office.
August 9 1974 - Nixon resigns. Ford follows the path of succession and assumes the office of the President.
So in very literal terms, the president and his VP being removed and replaced with a brokered president outside of the normal path of succession is truly unprecedented.
Footnote: I canât help but laugh that Ford hadnât even yet moved into the VP lodgings when Chief of Staff Alexander Haig contacted Ford on August 1 to tell him the tapes would be a smoking gun that likely resulted in Nixon being removed and Ford becoming president.
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And the Kurds of course.
Their story is that there was a quid-pro-quo between them and the US to dismantle defensive positions in return for continued US security. Now that those positions have been dismantled howeverâŚ
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Are there any estimates about how many Kurds will die because of the fucking moron running the country?
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Well there was an agreement with Ukraine that the Uniteds States would guarantee their security if they gave up the nuclear weapons the USSR had in their territory. Itâs probably not wise for anybody to count on the US for their security.
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Boredsocial sounding like late 2011 Republicans itt. Barack Obama at this point had similarly low approval (his net was -9 compared with Trumpâs -12). Republicans were energized against the black socialist President and had just crushed the midterms. Itâs not at all clear who the victor in 2020 will be.
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True.
You can really just look at the negotiation for Ford. Weâre not following anything similar to Nixonâs timeline, and we donât even have a president remotely like Nixon who was willing to resign. I just canât see Trump resigning. I definitely can see Pence resigning if the screws were put to him, and he is neck deep in the Ukraine scheme. My understanding (could be wrong) was that Agnew was a total prick and forced them to remove him.
I think there will be something similar that goes on (maybe) where the GOP and Dems actually do negotiate on a Pence replacement, but I doubt it. Theyâll probably just try to go Romney, and hope that suffices as a good will effort. The bench is super short on the GOP side, and I really have no idea who an acceptable replacement would be at this point for the GOP side. I didnât see anyone in the Senate, and lolHouse.
I am not opposed to exploring the use of force to assert Ukrainian territorial integrity.
Except Obama was actually trying to win votes from all demographics. That -9 represents a large portion of Trumpâs base. Trump is just burning bridges over anyone that doesnât fully support him. Itâs a huge difference.
I think @boredsocialâs point was that âright of centerâ is now part of the Democratic umbrella and is typical for Democratic politicians. In other words, we have to let it sink in how much Democrats suck. Maybe Biden is a Republican by decades-ago standards, but now heâs a Democrat and current Republicans are full-on RWNJâs.
Thankfully, though, people like Bernie, AOC and Liz-GOAT-cougar are starting to reverse the trend on the Democratic side.
Iâm not open to exploring the use of force on almost any matter anywhere in the world in 2019. Iâm for totally dismantling the military industrial complex in the quickest and most expeditious way possible. We need to take that mountain of money and invest it in our infrastructure, schools, healthcare (although we spend too much money already), and basic research. If we want to exert pressure on a foreign government we should do it through trade sanctions going forward.
Seriously the fact that we even allow defense spending into GDP is a fucking scandal. It has no utility whatsoever.
Our military is not for anything but defending our country, and just our country. We do not need the capability to invade anywhere or bomb anyone more than a few hundred miles from our own country. Having a war should require Congress to vote on it, and should require a draft. If we arenât willing to sacrifice broadly for war the cause isnât righteous enough and we shouldnât be doing it. This forever war nonsense is proof that Iâm right.
We should pull out of every foreign theater weâre involved in. Russia is a European problem, North Korea is an Asian problem, and Israel needs to figure out how to be a right wing ethnostate under its own power. And being half Jewish Iâm no anti-semite. Being anti Israeli policy in 2019 is not being antisemitic and we need to call that bullshit out every chance we get.
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Welcome to the two-party system. GOP moves miles to the right, Dems reflexively move to occupy the vacuum left behind.
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And God, apparently.
LOL the MANDATE OF HEAVEN. WHICH DONALD TRUMP HAS. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA wow. And he didnât lose that when he was systematically fucking the entire new testament? And people wonder why Iâm so anti religion lololol.
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Thatâs fair. I would imagine it goes something like:
Pence resigns and Trump throws him fully under the bus, thinking that will vindictive him.
Trump is later removed, too, much to his surprise.
Whoever the new VP is now assumes the office of President and takes care of physically removing Trump
This all has to happen pretty fast, but weâve seen how fast things move in the old days and, on occasion, in modern days too
I know this would never happen, but Iâve always thought that if you vote for war, you should be on the front lines. You shouldnât be willing to put other peopleâs lives at risk unless you are willing to risk your own life. Donât want to be on the front lines? Donât vote for war.
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I mean they could actually freak out the GOP by impeaching Trump first, and saying Pence will be secondâŚbut will they really do that? I doubt it.
Trump is the figurehead, but Pence is the guy inside robbing the bank. If Trumpâs impeached for this, thereâs no way that Pence should just skate. Heâs truly banking on Trump not getting convicted, and forgets to realize that he himself might get convicted on this as the pound of flesh.
Good point. Man, just seems like way too many moving parts for Trump to be removed first, Pence to become President, Pence names a new VP, Pence is removed, new VP becomes President.
But Iâd have said the same about Agnew->Ford->Nixon so who knows.
And itâs not like removing Pence first makes any of this easier.