Yeah this is incredible. Good on em.
Hate to break it to this guy, but it cant possibly be that hard to âEat their chewablesâ at the office.
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On the flip side, those who donât get high at work, dont get high at work regardless of whether it is at home or at the office.
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I once took 2 Ativan before a meeting with my boss and bossâ boss. Would not recommend.
Yeah this. Whoever tweeted that has never actually worked in tech.
Also theyâre confusing product manager and project manager. Different roles at any place Iâve worked.
Both are undervalued by management imo. They think anyone can do the job. But not everyone can do it well, which makes a huge difference in productivity and the end product.
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It is true that if you let clients talk to developers directly, youâll get a dozen half-baked features implemented to the exact letter of the clientâs confused thinking, most of which the client will realize they donât actually need, or didnât really think through any but the happiest of happy paths.
This is where a good detail-oriented product manager comes in. They should be able to get to the bottom of what the client is actually trying to accomplish, have a better idea than anyone the long term road map for the product, have a rough idea of the technical limitations (whatâs easy/hard/impossible), and usually have some user interface design skills.
The project manager has to herd cats and put out fires all day, and figure out how to motivate and keep on schedule a bunch of fussy developers with inflated egos who know they canât be fired.
How does one ascend to either of these jobs?
Get hired, do well. Maybe take some kind of certification course. Agile for project management.
It really just takes a certain personality type and be detail-oriented and have good follow-through.
My buddy builds custom Lims and data analysis systems tailored exactly to what the customer needs for a fraction of the cost of the 7 figure packages out there. Great for small science businesses.
He has learned to stop fighting when the customer has an âideaâ. He states his objection then he implements as asked and then gets paid again when it doesnât work and he has to fix it (ie do what he planned in the first place).
Yeah that makes sense with a paying client. But when the customer is an internal client, it just means more work and hassle for you if you donât get it right the first time.
And internal clients tend to be a lot less clear-thinking, because itâs not their money, and theyâre just business people, not UX designers.
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So, which of these things do those two do? Sounds like the first.
Also, both of those jobs seem like they would pay more than $60K.
Iâm an equivalent of a product manager (IT business analyst) and I make $90k working in the public sector. Iâd expect it to be a 6 figure job in the private sector.
Thatâs more in line with what I would expect given how suzzer described it. Maybe the girl in the vid didnât do a great job of explaining it, but her description did not leave me with the same impression as suzzerâs.
Yes in LA they would both be over $100k.
She sounded like she could talk intelligently about her product in the brief clip I saw. Those two are product managers I believe (I think they even say they are).
In your experience, do product managers write the stories for a sprint⌠thatâs what I do, and Iâm wondering if product manager and business analyst are analogous.
I think the way we worked was the product manager would write the specs, and either create wireframes or work with a UX person to create them.
Then the project manager and devs would work together to break those into sprints and stories - based on t-shirt sizing and fibonacci numbers and all that other annoying crap.
âHow many points is task XYZ?â
âDepends on who itâs assigned to.â
âThatâs not supposed to matter.â
âWell it does.â
Ad infinitum. Every time we started a new project. We liked to torment our project managers.
The business analysts tended to be in a more abstract realm I think. I donât know what they did actually. I just know we had a guy in our group become a business analyst, and he said his whole floor just watches youtube videos all day.
It varies wildly based on the company you are in. In ours a Product Manager would define the products and the team product vision and roadmap. The Engineer Manager would work with the team to execute on the product vision and convert it into technical specs and a Project Manager would lead the resource and technical allocation of the team on each product, including doing sprint and grooming work. I donât have a product manager (Iâm a DS/ML manager), so Iâm responsible for that part. We donât do too much project management in DS in general compared to most SWEs. A business analyst is usually a SQL/Tableau/Excel guru that may run and analyze simple tests and data.
Man I am so bummed that David Graeber died last year. Somebody smart really needs to write a post-COVID edition of Bullshit Jobs