With a good sprinkle of general whataboutism
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Do we really have to explain on a far left forum, in 2021, that gender identity is more core to ones identity than their job title?
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I’m just suggesting that the slaughterhouse isn’t always the place for performative virtue.
I hear where you’re coming from, but at least before March 2020 the “Workplace” was where many people literally spent the most hours of their week. It’s a good idea to make workplaces as non-toxic as possible. This applies to asbestos, wheelchair ramps, and, yes, inclusion.
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As my post above indicated I’m very much open to the idea that gender identity is in no way fundamental. It’s not a strongly held view of mine, and I’m sure some people regard gender identity as fundamental, which might actually make it so, but my default approch to many things is skepticism.
Some people hold being a Pats fan or loving person X as central to their identity, and yet these things can change.
This speaks to the power of gender politics and social norms. Our forum is very “left”, but we are also very, very male. And many of us grew up in an era where toxic masculinity and societal definitions of “being a man” were utterly indistinguishable. I am not at all surprised that we have some Venn diagram intersection between men that want higher taxes and more regulation and men who are emotionally vulnerable to the suggestion that gender is fluid and complex. Hell, I like traditional “guy stuff”! I like to lift weights, I like beer, I like hockey. But I don’t think that’s the only way or the best way to be a “guy”. But I know ALOT of people my age that have a hard time letting that go.
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It’s only performative if it’s the only thing a person does to promote inclusion. And that’s been the message from trans people I’ve spoken to about this: sure, thanks, put your pronouns in your email sig, but please don’t let that be all you do.
When people on the right accuse people on the left of being performative or being SJWs or virtue signalling I think a big part of it is that they don’t think the left really believes the stuff they’re saying because they don’t believe it themselves.
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Grunching
“Best regards” tilts me to no end.
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I just give “regards”. You want my best regards? Fuck you, pay me.
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I use regards or cheers depending on if I know them.
I tend to dislike conformity, as the pronouns thing too often strikes me as somewhat coerced virtue, which is the opposite of virtue. But, i do think it’s important to treat people with respect on their own terms. I’ve had friends who have represented trans people in employment cases and i probably would as well (i wouldn’t represent a trumper), and there’s probably something deep there with some people, but I’m a bit befuddled by people constructing their identity on being arbitrary thing x instead of arbitrary thing y.
This, uh, is the definition of identity?
a=a is the definition of identity.
As Descartes noted, the only thing one can be certain of with respect to oneself is that one is a thing which thinks.
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Got it. a=a, b=b, and c is an abomination against god and nature and should be shunned.
Man there is some shitty posting going on itt (by two people). It’s difficult for someone to understand what being transgender means if they themselves aren’t or they haven’t spoken directly with people who are. I get that and know that the ignorant posting is coming from that perspective, but the confidence and arrogance that comes along with it really pisses me off.
I’d suggest that you take a minute and consider that maybe, just maybe, you don’t know everything. Listen to the people who are sharing their lived experience. Try to comprehend that your understanding of identity isn’t necessarily correct. You’re making the world a shittier place for people who are transgender, and you don’t need to be.
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You are smart enough to realize that you don’t understand why gender is important because you are a member of the dominant gender identity with all the power and privilege.
It’s easy as a white cis man to say “whatever, it’s not that important”.
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I like to deny that a=a is always true because fuck you, Ayn Rand.
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We are now firmly in the “hypocrisy” arguments territory. Great job. Can’t wait till simp or someone breaks out the ‘what about china?!?” line.
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Real protections and tangible enhancement of rights are important. Performative actions are also important. One reason is that they indicate to everyone in society what the right side of the issue is.
Just want to clarify that I was in no way invoking Rand. A=A is just a common axiom of identity going back to Aristotle. Law of identity - Wikipedia Though from what I’ve heard Rand tended to misuse philosophy.
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