I didn’t offer an opinion other than charges should be dropped against Snowden now that a federal appellate court has found that he merely exposed illegal activity by the NSA. Do you want a link to that? It’s well documented, but I don’t blame people if they don’t know about this. The news media has barely mentioned it except in passing
Or do you want the link to when Clapper lied under oath saying they didn’t “wittingly” spy on people? That’s also public record
I’m not saying all career government employees are criminals who intentionally break laws. But what Snowden exposed was pretty wide spread and pretty damn concerning
I think it’s used by people who both support and actually carry out the operation of whatever it is we’re talking about. Donald Trump would be a fine example. It’s also used by people talking nonsense.
As for most people wanting it gone, well, most people obviously say they’re against the things in your post when described like that, but in my opinion many people (I do think most) are fine with them when they’re deployed in ‘deniable’ ways against people they think are bad. The ‘deep state’ is fine with justifying itself like that a lot of the time.
E2A - Security State seemed the best to me. I’m fine with State as well but I do think there might be particular agencies, departments, cliques etc. to it.
I have a problem with the use of the term Deep State, because it’s a term the right has deployed to label basically any career government employee that would rather follow the law than blindly carry out Trump’s demands. Those people are good imo. I get that there are probably people in parts of the DOD doing bad things, but they are almost certainly a minuscule portion of the supposed deep state, ie career civil servants.
Hearted even though I don’t agree with the “miniscule” description. Like I don’t think the average analyst at the CIA is a bad person, but that’s the banality of evil thing.
Also “state” should be understood as not just government employees. Snowden was obviously part of the “security” apparatus, but was a private contractor.
But yeah “Deep State” as popularized now by Trump means something entirely different. He means something more like people who have refused to throw transgendered people out of the military or flat out ban Muslims from entering the country.
If you polled the public on “do you want your privacy invaded”, then yeah probably most people would say no. But if you polled the public on the patriot act or the police being able to search suspects’ cell phones, the answer would be very different. Same with being lied to by the government vs. basic military recruitment ads. Engaging in war crimes vs. our troops doing what they needed to do to secure the area.
This, obviously. Engage in war crimes and the President will pardon you.
Also, the public has plenty of animosity towards Snowden. In 2015, 64% of Americans had a negative opinion of him. I’d be surprised if his approval rating was much above 50% in this forum.
Ok I’ll concede to using a different term even though I don’t agree with the logic that anything Trump does or says must by definition be bad and we must therefore condemn it. Maybe the mods can change the title of OP to “Security State” or some other preferred term. Although, it seems like typical liberal nonsense to get so hung up on words. Even though I’m sure there are some “very fine” people (such as Snowden) who work in these agencies or as contractors, there’s no denying that some very nefarious shit takes place in the bowels of our government agencies. Call it what you want I guess
What they did to Manning and are trying to do with Snowden and Assange after they simply exposed the unlawfulness of their programs is unconscionable imo and I’m fine with the term deep state, but I’ll use something else for the sake of moving conversation along. In the meantime…
Anyone disagree that all charges should be immediately dropped against Snowden now?
What do you expect people to think after their messiah first Black president Obama posing as a progressive, called him a traitor to his country and publicly wanted him brought back to the US and tried for treason while continuing and even escalating many of the operations (I’m thinking drone strikes) of his predecessor?
Then what would you have him in an American prison for?
You don’t know what you’d do when facing a possible life or maybe even death sentence. (That said, I don’t blame Snowden a bit. Fuck Russia and the USA, but live wherever you can.)
ianal, and i don’t know why he would be facing the death penalty. wiki says US DoJ specifically said he wouldn’t face the death penalty. i am not a whistleblower either, and i cannot tell you why going public about the government lying has to be done by revealing hundreds of thousands of documents, including shared foreign intelligence. tehre are probably charges Snowden should feel privileged to accept, and several he should defy and beat in court. being an icon for the freedom of the press, he is check notes receiving living accomodations and protection of the kremlin, and the fsb.
do you know what you’d do when facing a likely violent death like a mobiiization order from teh drunk commandant of an outpost in Podunk, Buryatia?