It’s possible to argue HRC wasn’t some kind of brainless woman who got famous because of her husband and agree she did many bad things.
I’m not defending her, I’m defending her gender.
I didn’t ever argue that though. Quite the opposite. I explicitly said she had a great career. Saying she was an opportunist is not the same thing as caling her a brainless women. Come on man.
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I won’t argue that Hildog’s connection to Bill didn’t help get here where she is because that wouldn’t be logical, but she got to Yale law and was a congressional legal staffer before she met him, so it’s not out of the realm of possibility to think that she might have done it without him. She certainly has the brains at the very least to do the jobs she’s done, performance notwithstanding.
I do think it’s pretty cynical to bash her for her Bill connection as a means to power, though. This country was founded by powerful, aristocratic, well-connected rich landowners. Almost no one gets anywhere in government/politics without connections of some kind (lots of money helps too). People can talk all they want about America being the “land of opportunity,” but this is the real “American Way.”
And this is precisely why we elevate and celebrate hold to such high esteem the “self-made man” whenever one happens along. It’s not because this person is some shining example of True America. It’s precisely because it is so fucking rare to see it happen. It’s like spotting a unicorn.
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I agree you weren’t making the overt claim but it seemed like you were not giving her enough credit. I was simply pointing out it’s a common error given the patriarchal lens.
Others were far more overt.
No one attacked her intelligence though?
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I was exaggerating for effect but it’s not far off to claim she was SoS because of her husband.
Well when asked about her friendship with noted defender against sexism, Harvey Weinstein, Hillary replied “how could we have known”
So either she’s a dumbass in that regard or just turned a blind eye because Harvey was raising a lot of money for her and Obama. Such a feminist icon, yassss qweeennn!!!
Ronan even said her publicist tried to kill his original Harvey story.
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It’s pretty clearly Hill>Bill for me. That might be an interesting poll here. I would predict Hillary would win.
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Possibly. I’m not a big fan of either but would probably pick her by a thin margin.
Yeah, I think so. Bill is clearly a worse person. And while Hillary lost to Trump, Bill set and entrenched Ds on the neoliberal/third way path that set the stage for Trump and fucked up our politics in general.
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>
- Hill
- Bill
0 voters
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We need a no one fucking cares option.
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It’s probably closer than you think. Hillary has some bangers such as calling kids super predators and her “we came, we saw, he died” comment about her “successful” Libya strategy. I probably think she’s better than Bill but honestly fuck both of them.
Also in my Weinstein comment I don’t think she’s an idiot but is actually a horrible person and turned a blind eye.
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I used to believe that, but then I realized that everything that she led was at best a draw and usually a failure. If she had gotten healthcare reform done in '92 this would be a different country, and the person who got that done probably would have either had the wisdom not to run or the skill to win.
Every single place you look at HRC she’s turning up to take her share of the credit, but try as I might I can’t find any examples of really oustanding work by her mattering.
The only way you can attribute success to her is to give her credit for her husbands accomplishments… but when they switch roles the whole thing turns into a massive struggle bus every time. She was elected to the Senate by getting the person who waited in line for the job to get out of the way for her in the primary (one of the few things she’s always been consistently good at is machine politics) and then winning a general election Senate Race in NY. Her time as Secretary of State was fine I guess, but she was one of the biggest hawks in the room for the Afghan surge.
I’m sorry I just don’t buy it. I think she’s as ambitious as Pete Buttigieg but is the very definition of a stupid smart person. She values loyalty over competence, herself over the good of the planet, and public perception over actual realities. She’s almost the embodiment of everything wrong with the Democratic Party… an insanely privileged white woman who has run hotter than the sun complaining about how hard things are for her. And then getting us, a bunch of people who are almost to a person less privileged than her in nearly every way, to navel gaze about whether or not sexism is the reason she didn’t beat Donald Trump. As though any actual leader deserving of leading a superpower shouldn’t be able to mop the floor with Donald with a ‘you must maintain a public vow of silence’ level handicap.
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And bill wouldn’t have been president if she wasn’t his wife. So what.
Now contrast that to actually gifted politicians who happen to be female. Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Angela Merkel, Benazir Bhutto… the list goes on and on. They’re really good at politics. They found (and continue to find in the case of Merkel who did the greatest humanitarian thing of the last 20 years, held the Euro zone together, and somehow remained in power all this time) opportunities in all sorts of strange places and in the case of Bhutto were of such concern to their opponents that they had her killed.
It’s not feminist to defend someone weak because they are a woman. It’s feminist to expect them to be absolutely exceptional. Don’t worry they’ll meet the expectation, and very often exceed it. Politics isn’t a physical activity where men and women aren’t on a level playing field ability wise. It’s harder for women because of societal reasons like gender stereotypes, but absolutely not an area where the talent or ability levels of people at the top should be at all different by gender. There are, I am absolutely confident, at least as many women with the right pool of abilities to be a world leader as there are men. Possibly more when I’m really feeling the phrase ‘men are trash’.
And no I’m not interested in ‘HRC isn’t worse than the other shitty eDems of her generation’ lines. That’s probably totally true. I consider the entire group of them to be almost as responsible as the GOP for what has become of the country under their so called watch. They made government into an all you can eat buffett for lobbyists and I’m supposed to give them credit for not sucking more than each other?
AOC took on Joe Crowley and won as a 29 years old waitress/bartender. That’s a more impressive political accomplishment than HRC has ever had or ever will. AOC is what I want my future children to think of as a female political role model… not someone like Nancy Pelosi or HRC.
In other news in an organizing contest I’d take @skydiver8 over any of you and give pretty good odds (this is actually only one of a few things I’d prop bet skydiver on, she scares me a little bit. Anyone who has enough emotional control to take the abuse I was piling on her candidate/her during the primaries and stay friendly is dangerous indeed)… and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with her gender. It’s because I have a bunch of good reasons to think she’d crush you. And @zarapochka is probably the best pure math person here. I’m almost certain. There are a couple of you who might also have crazy hard math backgrounds, but I’m pretty sure she’s got her doctorate in math or physics and does hard math problems all day about air flow so… yeah.
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time for a different topic.
you almost hate to see it
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Good/funny short term, horrific long-term… cuz Tucker is going to lose/cave.
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Now we be a good time for a Covid related clot to be thrown orangeward.