https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1786500449949876344?t=d-9K-8e3xhwMFzRSNvlj6w&s=19
Why would the shirt get weird looks? Is the message wrong? Why is the message wrong?
Why are we all of a sudden so opposed to a two state solution and an actual peace agreement?
Why is absolute conformity to the “message” of the protesters more important than actual nuance and education?
Finally, why have none of you commented about that truck?
I suppose I kind of feel it about the shirt…I ALWAYS wear left-leaning messaging t-shirts when I have to go out in public in my ruby-red Trump-loving town, so yeah
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How he felt about the shirt? He got looks and thought they were suspicious? He didn’t even say people sneered at him or gave him the stink eye or flipped him off. They had to read the shirt and then thought about it and him for a second?
I hate these demands for pledges or denunciations. This isn’t a struggle session in the Cultural Revolution.
I think it’s more that I’ve read this whole thread and there seems to be zero acknowledgement of some of the problematic parts of these protests (besides the heavy handed response of the Admins/cops, which is obviously a lot problematic), like we’re just handwaving away the actual nuances here.
I don’t post on this much because there seems to be no space for nuance
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I already mentioned why I think the shirt is going to get weird looks. It’s taking a standard slogan/chant and slightly modifying it. The actual message itself isn’t offensive, much like All Lives Matter isn’t offensive, but is intended to poke at the BLM slogan. His slogan is intended to poke at the From the River to the Sea slogan with a clear inference that he thinks it’s offensive and wrong.
He provided zero evidence that there was required “conformity” to the message - that was just his opinion, but could easily been the result that no one wanted to engage with him.
As to the truck - Nazi’s are bad - does that really need to be said.
Is there no room in the protest movement for someone who believes that?
In the interest of nuance.
A political entity that strongly references a specific genocide in its justification for apartheid type policies is now plausibly accused of genocide by the ICC. The political party in charge of that political entity has been described as fascist by people itt without much challenge.
Is there a way that this point could be made via slogans/imagery/etc which you would view as non-problematic?
Given the history of anti semitism using the star of David, I think it’s got a lot of parallels with anti Semitic imagery. But I could also see why many younger students wouldn’t immediately view it as such.
Sure - they didn’t kick him out of the protest, and he admits they were all polite and some did engage with him (just not as much as he wanted). They just at most gave him the side eye (but again that could just be the result of being a 40 year old man at a college protest).
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What about his post suggests he didn’t get room at the protest?
There is something at the protest about not engaging - and I was briefly at the UCLA protest. There is some organized effort to not debate and especially to not talk to media. I think partly it’s a response to the very aggressive doxxing that has happened (like didn’t some people put posters up on busses in NYC of people labeled antisemites?). Some of that is kinda culty and lame imo, but whatever. There were non-associated people of all descriptions on the periphery who might debate if he wanted.
Apparently it does if you don’t want to be suspect yourself.
And they have had people throwing bricks at them and hitting them with sticks. That could make them a little wary.
Like, where do I go if I’m against the violence of cops and against the violent hate speech of many of the protestors and against Netanyahu and against Hamas and earnestly wish people knew more about this complex issue than the dumb fucking slogans they scream at each other for reasons that have nothing to do with Israelis or Palestinians?
I cannot get on board with any movement that encourages genocide. Let me be specific. I am not on board with Netanyahu’s government nor it’s actions, AND I am not on board with Hamas’s leadership and its desire to eliminate all Jews. I find that many of the “protesters” and people on their side seem to take issue with the second part of that statement.
The standard “from the river to the sea” chant has been used historically as a call to eliminate Israel and all Jews.
We need to create a space in this discourse for people like me who are against terrorism/hostage taking, against reckless bombing of aid workers and civilians, against perpetuating famine, against anti-Semitic and Islamophobic protests, against only protesting one side of the conflict, and against militarized police marching on a university quad like they are invading Fallujah.
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Fair enough. Just that slogan being enough to get someone judged to be a bit iffy is one more reason that these styles of protests are not how you win friends and influence the American public.
Organize your own protest or do it on your own.
Yeah, for sure, but it was originally used as a slogan for Likud.
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are you or that guy part of the university administration that the students are trying to force to negotiate? if not dont go there condescendingly trying to “educate”.
would you go to a labor strike trying to tell union workers about the economic theory that may contradict their strike?
I guess we could also protest the investment of university endowments into companies that supply Hamas weaponry
But I feel like that wouldn’t take very long
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it’s totally normal, this issue is more complicated that most people want to deal with and so they have incoherent thoughts about it.
Fair - and if he wants to push changing the slogan to his version, I’d support that (although it doesn’t really lend itself to an easy chant). I just think his method of wearing his shirt to a protest is going to get some skepticism.
What is your basis for this? Is there evidence that most of the protestors support Hamas/want to eliminate all Jews? I get that’s the right-wing talking point, but I haven’t seen that (and yes there are the crazies that do). From what I’ve seen, a decent chunk of the protestors are Jews, so doubt they support Hamas in its desire to eliminate themselves.
I feel this is similar to Biden going on TV and saying how the protestors are all violent criminals - yes some are, but most are peaceful. Or schools saying how all the protestors are outside agitators, when in fact most are actual students.
Speaking for myself, nowhere. I don’t talk about it beyond really surface stuff with anyone other than my immediate family. If somebody really presses me I say just read what Bernie Sanders has said, I’m with him on this.
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I think one thing that’s missed when these people show up unannounced is that this is a student protest, and they’ve been there for days
Like everyone there is going to know each other really well
It’s like gate crashing someone’s birthday dinner and wondering why people aren’t chatty chatty with you