The most obvious proof is the complete lack of a single progressive policy victory at the federal level for the last 40 years.
They have duped lots of people including people in this very forum breathlessly still expecting impeachment to happen any day now and have any real consequence.
Eh. I actually think that both parties secretly want Trump gone very badly. He’s managed to make the game they are all playing waaaay too obvious and is very very bad for business.
In a lot of ways I think Trump really is the death of this particular very unsustainable political meta. That and the disruptive political power of the internet for both reaching supporters and raising money is why the front runner isn’t taking special interest money.
The only thing that gives me hope is the fact that establishment politicians seem to have lost control over the political process. We’ve got 3 candidates that are totally unacceptable to them in the top 5, and another candidate totally unacceptable to them who has straight up car jacked the presidency.
I hope you are right. I just meant that the establishment Dems in congress beating the impeachment drum is for show and will do nothing. And the people falling for it are the same people who have been falling for the establishment routine from Dems for decades.
I mean it was always going to do nothing… A Moscow Mitch led Senate is not going to vote to convict. This is 100% about getting as much bad info as possible out about Trump in advance of 2020. It’s oppo research on steroids, because somehow they failed to do proper opposition research in the lead up to 2016.
Is that even going to happen though? So far it really hasn’t. We are less than 15 months from the election and I guess I will believe it when I see it.
Yeah same. I think there might be some element of foot dragging for timing going on here. It’s a lot better if the bad stuff leaks in a year instead of right now where it would have time to get buried under forty news cycles of Trumps bullshit.
God I hate Pelosi right now. I’m arguing with a deplorable on Facebook, and he gets to hit me over the head with, “Remember how wrong you were about the Mueller Report? It’s cause you’re brainwashed by the left, it’s the same with this.”
I know he’s wrong and he’s a moron, but it’s a winning argument right now because if I take the bait I just get pounded over the head with, “Even a die hard liberal like Pelosi knows they shouldn’t impeach!”
And what are we arguing about that he gets to hit me over the head with this? His take that white men are at a disadvantage in America.
That whole situation is your fault. You’re debating a moron and you’re trying to use logic. Both of those are bad choices lol.
All true.
You can also blame Mitch McConnell. The only reason Pelosi hasn’t already impeached Trump is that she knows that Mitch will see him acquitted, and then that moron will be telling you that he was found innocent on all charges.
We’re in a rough spot right now politically. The good news is that this isn’t even a little bit sustainable. The reason none of us have ever seen this situation before is because no political party was ever dumb enough to take this line… and the GOP didn’t take it willingly. Trump is an opportunistic infection that they’ve caught and are now trying ride out. I don’t think it’s going to work at all.
It’s true that the GOP base LOVES Trump. That’s because he’s truly one of them. Unfortunately for the GOP they aren’t going to be willing to accept less flashy WWE style politicians going forward. Now that they’ve tasted Trumpism they aren’t going to go back… and Trumpism is straight up death electorally.
There are a lot of possible futures where GOP turnout for normie GOP politicians post Trump never recovers… and their entire plan to get elected hinges on winning low turnout elections where their old people still turn out. There are also a bunch of possible futures where left wing voter turnout goes up and also never goes back down because Warren gets elected in 2020 and gets stuff done.
It’s important to realize that left leaning voter turnout has been trash for at least a generation. DJT could be the catalyst that changes that forever. And once that happens it’s game over for this particular meta.
I guess I see the current political metagame as being totally unsustainable. Nobody likes it except for the people benefiting from it, and that’s like 5% of the population or less… So it’s not a question of if it dies but when and how. I genuinely think that if that change can’t be found through our current political system our political system will eventually collapse. I’m talking Secession and Civil War collapse, which about half of our more left wing posters here are already 100% down for.
Sign me up for the collapse. That post has me feeling at least some optimism for this country’s future. I have to admit I haven’t felt much in quite a long time.
One simple fact is that the US has spent the last 20 years trying to control territory in places where it wasn’t wanted and it hasn’t worked yet. The Chinese are experiencing the same in Hong Kong right now. After a year or two under the Nazi’s most of the territory they had captured started to cost a lot of blood and treasure to hold (and if somehow they had won the war I’m convinced that their empire would have collapsed under the strain of fighting dozens of insurgencies).
You can’t hold territory in 2019 without the consent of the governed. The only exception to this is North Korea and they would have collapsed long ago without Chinese help at the start, in the middle, and more recently. The internet has made this more true not less true.
So if/when things get bad enough the system will collapse, and it’s painfully obvious the voters want a major change. They just got done electing a black guy twice followed by a reality TV star. They very definitely aren’t interested in keeping the status quo going. There’s a lot of tension in the air and that’ll get worse not better if stuff doesn’t start to move soonish.
I hope you are right. Things like Biden leading in the polls make me question this a bit though. Frankly the Biden thing has me despairing nearly as much as Trump at this point. If our own side can’t get their shit together then what difference does it make. That’s what I’ve been fighting against mentally for a while now.
Biden winning the nomination, then the presidency, but not taking the Senate is almost worse than Trump getting a second term. At least if Trump gets a second term there will be more irreparable systemic damage, which is really an opportunity to rebuild it right the second time.
You just need to stop viewing Democrats as smarter than Republicans. Democratic voters are sheep, just like Republican voters, who need to be herded. Once you abandon the Enlightenment as a political ideal, the path forward becomes more obvious.
I’m firmly in camp “they’re in on it.” The current two-party system suits them just fine. They can position themselves just to the left of the Nazi party, and as a progressive voter, what are you going to do? Throw your vote away on a third-party candidate? You “have” to vote for the D.
I actually think that we need to move beyond asking if they’re in on it and figuring out how to do something about it.
Is it:
0 voters
I voted checking to see if you could select multiple boxes. It’s really all of the above. You need to infiltrate the Democratic Party and subvert it for now. Before you can vote 3rd party most of the time you need to have some radicalish reform like ranked choice voting.
Ranked choice voting is something we need desperately. Yet another thing Yang is for lol. Sorry I keep name dropping him, but he’s my second choice and a buuuunch of you still think he’s a one trick pony because he leads with UBI and is relentlessly on message.
Yang has a lot of good policy stuff on his page, but what has he accomplished? If the POTUS is going to get any legislation they want, they have to do it politically. They can’t just order it up. So he’s going to try to do a bunch of stuff that is on literally no one’s agenda in Washington while not knowing any of the players. Like Trump is an outsider, so what can he accomplish? Well, he can do some executive orders, some of which get no support from his party even, appoint people and he can sign the stuff that Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan wanted signed.
There will be no UBI unless the Speaker and Senate leader want it. As far as ranked choice voting goes, that probably falls to the states.
I know an elite salesman when I see one. Watch his Ben Shapiro appearance and come back to me with that.
My favorite thing about Yang is that he’s absolutely INCREDIBLE at selling conservatives. Like the best I’ve ever seen. More than half the Yang Gang right now is probably made up of Trump voters. He opens up the possibility of absolutely rolling Trump even further than Warren.
He’s an outsider, but he’s an insanely smart/charismatic outsider. Might be just what the doctor ordered.