Sell me on the stock market

I think maybe stock markets (and possibly commodities and currency markets as they currently exist) are bad and we shouldn’t have them. Willing to hear reasons why that’s wrong. Let me set out my stall.

My dumb-dumb notion of a stock market is: A market for the buying and selling of notional fractions of notional entities themselves engaged in commerce. A trader on this market will buy stocks in a company on the basis that she believes the company’s profits either are or will become high enough to generate an acceptable dividend. A speculative trader may buy a stock on the understanding that real-world market conditions indicate that the company’s chances of generating profits at that level are due to increase, hoping to sell the stocks for a profit later.

That last bit creates an interesting phenomenon: the Keynesian Beauty Contest. From Wikipedia:

Keynes described the action of rational agents in a market using an analogy based on a fictional newspaper contest, in which entrants are asked to choose the six most attractive faces from a hundred photographs. Those who picked the most popular faces are then eligible for a prize.

A naive strategy would be to choose the face that, in the opinion of the entrant, is the most handsome. A more sophisticated contest entrant, wishing to maximize the chances of winning a prize, would think about what the majority perception of attractiveness is, and then make a selection based on some inference from their knowledge of public perceptions. This can be carried one step further to take into account the fact that other entrants would each have their own opinion of what public perceptions are. Thus the strategy can be extended to the next order and the next and so on, at each level attempting to predict the eventual outcome of the process based on the reasoning of other rational agents.

So in reality, the stock market never functions per my dumb-dumb notion above. Instead, trading comes to revolve far more around the perceived actions, appraisals and intentions of other actors on the stock market than on the real-world market conditions as appraised by the trader herself. Let’s call this the “Spock market”. My first contention is: Any sufficiently mature stock market will become a Spock market.

I’ve read that after the stock market crash of 1929, it was initially assumed that there would be no major impact on the ‘real economy’. Commodities were still being sold at retail, primary resources were still being extracted etc. All that had happened was that the notional value of notional fractions of notional entities had rapidly decreased. We would never think that now. The Depression, Black Wednesday, 2008 and other, smaller, but fairly frequent market meltdowns have left us entirely used to the Spock market periodically threatening us all with disaster and occasionally delivering.

Major real-world events are reflected in the markets, and people look in no small part to the markets to assess the actual impact of the real-world events. Governments that struggle to fund essential services will glibly throw a trillion(!) dollars onto the markets like sugar onto a dying fire, in the hopes of staving off disaster. Come fire, famine or plague, the market must not flag. The worst possible thing that could happen, the apocalypse in whose face all else must be sacrificed, is a drop in market prices. Let’s call this the “shock market”. My second contention is that any sufficiently mature Spock market will become a shock market.

A funny thing happened over the course of the pandemic, sort of an inversion of early assumptions about the 1929 crash: everyone assumed the impact on the ‘real economy’ — shutdowns, lockdowns, cessation of productive activity etc — would be disastrous for the stock market. What happened, as far as I can make out, was that the Spock market shat the bed for about six weeks starting in February, as traders accounted for the fact that everyone assumed this. But the S&P closed out 2020 up 16% on the year, a record high.

So my question for all the smart guy centrists is: What good is the shock market? What are the benefits that redound to society as a result of its existence? It’s an honest question and I’d quite like to know. I can see that a stock market allows people to start up and expand businesses without onerous seed-capital requirements and I suppose that’s good. I have more trouble with the Spock market — I really don’t see what societal benefit it’s supposed to have. And all I see in the shock market is a monster that eats money and periodically destroys a bunch of stuff. So what am I missing?

Relatedly — am I wrong that stock markets always become Spock markets? Can a stock market be regulated in a way that will prevent that? Can a Spock market be regulated in a way that prevents the emergence of the shock market?

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@bobman0330 I summon thee, I bind thee and adjure thee, in the names of Smith and Keynes I exhort thee: help thou my unbelief.

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4v4tsk

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In theory? If we are going to have a market economy with private enterprises, then those enterprises need to be able to raise capital.

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But that’s the stock market and I acknowledge that benefit in the OP. I’m talking about a fully matured market where major political and fiscal decisions are centred around their presumed impact on market prices, a ‘shock market’ as I’ve termed it for (I hoped) convenience.

The 1929 stock market crash didn’t cause the depression, it was a symptom of the start of the depression. The deflationary spiral that caused the depression also triggered the stock market crash.

As far as what good is the stock market, what is the harm of the stock market? There are obvious benefits, it gives regular people the opportunity to invest in businesses and lets companies raise capital easily.

Again, these are stock market benefits, the Simple English Wikipedia understanding of the stock market that only captures a small amount of the actual nature and impact of the market.

As to what the harm is, it seems to me that, whether it’s the existence of the mature market itself, or only the conditions which allow and encourage that maturation, it leaves us at the mercy of a system nobody fully understands and can only very imprecisely predict and control. It’s apparently disastrous when the stock market drops a ton of value. Everyone freaks out. It’s also something that seems to happen a lot more often than we should tolerate, given how disastrous it is.

So (I reason) there must be some counterbalancing benefit, not just ‘the ability of companies to raise capital’ because that just doesn’t seem like it’s enough, you know?

Why in the world is the stock market dropping disastrous?

Beats me. Governments sure spend a lot of time and money trying to prevent it from happening, though.

It isn’t disastrous. It happens all the time. Who cares.

I mean, downticks happen, bear markets happen, sure. I’m talking about crashes.

The stock markets crashing isn’t the disaster. The disaster is the disaster, and the stock market is reacting to that. The stock market crash didn’t cause the 2008 financial panic, the financial panic caused the stock market crash. The disaster wasn’t the stock market dropping 55%, the disaster was all the terrible economic damage that the stock market was reacting to. Last year, the disaster was the global pandemic killing millions of people and grinding economies to a standstill.

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What caused the financial panic?

Michael Burry shorting mortgage backed securities.

Thanks, I’m trying to keep up with your thinking on this.

I guess the technocratic idea behind glibly throwing billions to trillions of dollars to prop up prices is that when markets (of any type) fail then the government should jump in to mitigate the damage. For example if the food supply market just failed due to some exogenous shock, the government would try to stop people from starving, they wouldn’t just hang back and say “let the market decide, in a few months millions will be dead but there will be attractive opportunities for new market entrants and it will all sort itself out”.

I think that central bankers and the like see themselves as heroes for bailing out private entities in the capital markets, to stop the downstream damage to regular people. I dont share that view, but I can understand how they could look at it that way.

In other words, Michael Burry taking a position on the market related to Michael Burry’s appraisal of the likely future behaviour of the market as determined by the aggregate appraisals of other traders in that market.

So my questions stand.

OK, that seems reasonable. But I remember that clip that went viral:

Wouldn’t it be better to assist the people directly? Or at least, wouldn’t it be better to determine which kinds of businesses are like airlines (everything essential will still be there when it’s all blown over with minimal maintenance requirements) and which kinds just innately can’t ‘pause’ for a while and pick back up again, and direct aid accordingly?

It seems like a semi-privatisation of government intervention itself, doesn’t it? Pump aid into the board members and trust them to ensure it trickles down.

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That’s not what caused the financial panic, that was just me being slightly annoyed and glib at you asking me to explain the financial panic, which is maybe more than I’m willing to write right now. But if you’re interested the wikipedia article isn’t a bad start.

That would be my moral preference. The problem is that the people who control the taps have made a career out of turning other taps than direct aid, and they’re not about to put themselves out of work by saying “fuck all this, we should just write every citizen a cheque”.

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Put cash in index funds, shift part of your money to bonds every 10 years or so until retirement.

Day-trading without inside information is for suckers.

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