https://twitter.com/byjoelanderson/status/1221598145169125376?s=20
By the time Kobe was a thing people knew about, HIV pretty much already wasn’t a death sentence.
edit: eh, I was thinking Kobe started his career in like 1999 or so. In 1996 HIV treatment and public awareness of its effectiveness probably wasn’t solidified in the public consciousness.
Hence “I’m probably not saying this right”.
I totally get the sentiment, Magic’s announcement hit me exactly the same way.
Magic’s announcement was in 1991.
I know but I’ll bet not very many people in 1991 were thinking that Kobe Bryant was going to for sure outlive Magic.
If anyone hasnt. You should all read the Wikipedia page on the rape stuff. Before dismissing it as “not proven”.
What is not debated.
- he choked a 19 year old at her place of work so hard she had serious bruising
- she bled so much it got on his t-shirt
- he admitted that she didn’t consent
- he doxxed her afterwards and slut shamed her
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These are all complete bullshit. Nobody thinks it’s karmic retribution. We all believe his death, and the death of the other people including his daughter, is horrific, and we especially feel terrible for all the families who are grieving. I guess I too pass the gum and walk test.
Some of us just believe that the rape allegations shouldn’t be forgotten. Be dismissed as “no real evidence”. And too fucking bad if some people don’t like that being talked about right now.
I don’t really want to defend Kobe on this incident, but some of what you described as not debated facts are pretty skewed. First, something terrible happened in that room and none of us will ever know exactly what it was. It’s unlikely, but possible, that he did nothing wrong beyond his infidelity and the woman took the opportunity. I don’t think that’s what happened. It’s more likely, but in my opinion, not the most likely thing, that he’s just a rapist, an evil guy. I think there would be more women coming forward at some point, but you never know. What’s most likely is either that there was a horrible miscommunication, and that ultimately the fault is on him, but that he believed he had implied consent when he did not or that he had consent for the sex overall, but not specific aspects of it and proceeded with those anyway, which is also really bad.
As for your points…
Saying he choked her at her place of work so hard she had bruising fails to mention that: that can be a part of consensual sex, they were in a bedroom, and she went into the room willingly. Like, you make it sound like he walked up to her behind the front desk and strangled her.
Saying she bled so much it got on her t-shirt makes it sound like there was a lot of blood. As far as I know, we don’t know this. We just know that there were three spots of blood on his shirt. Were they tiny spots? Dime sized? Bigger? Huge? We just don’t know.
He admitted that he did not explicitly ask for consent, but he also said he believed that he had it through several acts that she engaged in on her end.
I don’t recall exactly how the character attacks went down, but did he do it himself or was it his lawyers? Obviously he had to accept their strategy even if he didn’t engage in it, but some of those facts obviously had to be brought to light at trial - her identity obviously did not.
Ultimately, to me, we’ll never know. He most likely either did something very bad or had a horrible misunderstanding that was more his fault than hers. It’s fair to mention it in his obituaries, but it should not be the focus in the short term. I’m more upset by the death of the kids on that helicopter, including but not limited to his daughter. If there’s anything wrong with the news coverage I’ve seen it’s that they’re mostly ignoring the other people, not that they aren’t dragging his reputation enough for the rape case.
I was never a huge Kobe fan on the court, but I’m still extremely sad about what happened yesterday, what the world lost and the families that were torn apart. At this point, the rape case is what it is - a terrible thing that happened that will always be a small part of his legacy/bio and something we’ll never know about.
If it’s unfair to say he was a great man without mentioning it, it’s also unfair to say he was a rapist without admitting it’s not totally certain. Besides, most of the people calling him a great man are talking about his family life, his interactions with kids, his coaching, etc… These aren’t people who should be expected to comment on what happened ~15 years ago in Colorado.
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Congrats, one of the worsts posts I’ve read on this site. I feel dirty for just having read it.
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At bare minimum, he also lied to police.
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I guess the thing I wonder about is how a person who almost certainly was guilty of sexual assault should be viewed after all this time of “good behavior”(as far as we know). I have thought about it a decent amount since all this happened and I really don’t know. How much weight do we put on the horrible act vs. his actions for the last 17 years. I do think it’s different from Cosby or Michael Jackson. At least as far as we know he wasn’t some serial predator like them. That being said what he did was one of the worst things you can do so…
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I think every person can and should make up their own mind about that.
That’s a ridiculous comparison.
That, too.
The fact that he wasn’t ever credibly accused by anyone else should increase the chances it was a horrible miscommunication on consent and not an intentional rape. It doesn’t make her experience any less horrible and it doesn’t make him innocent or mean that he didn’t do anything wrong, but it should have a huge impact on how his character is viewed.
Like I hated Kobe while he was playing because I never liked the Lakers and he threw some shade at Philly and the Sixers. So I’m not some Kobe fan looking to defend him, but I’m also not cool with people posting things as facts that simply aren’t or claiming stuff isn’t debatable that is decidedly skewed.
Two people in the world know what happened in that hotel room, and given what we as a society know about these things, it’s at least possible that neither lied materially about what transpired. So it’s always going to be part of his life and legacy but it also shouldn’t define him given the degree of uncertainty over whether he made a bad mistake, apologized for it, paid a hefty price and did his best to live better, or intentionally and violently raped her, bought his way out of it, and got away with it.
Ridiculous fact I just learned today:
Since the NBA MVP award was first given in 1956, every recipient is still alive except for 3 (Wilt Chamberlain, Moses Malone, Kobe Bryant).
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I’m so confused! Some people are saying I should be sad about Kobe, some people are saying I shouldn’t!
What do I doooooooooo!?!?
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The fact that she had bruises on her throat and injuries consistent with rape make it pretty clear that the “misunderstanding” was likely only on the part of one of the participants
But hey, she did go into his room willingly. She was obviously asking for it.
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lol, by 2010 he was the third highest paid athlete on Earth.
He didn’t just pay a financial price, but ~2.5M is a lot regardless, plus the endorsements, and he also paid a price in terms of his reputation. If it was a miscommunication, he paid dearly. If it wasn’t, he obviously got off easy.
None of that proves it was more than a miscommunication of consent, and obviously the person who doesn’t want it is understanding their own intent. I’ll give you one simple example, and I really don’t want to argue about the endless possibilities here. I already laid out the possibilities and don’t view them as favorable to Kobe overall. I do think there’s enough uncertainty to consider it. But if someone is saying “Don’t!! Stop!!!” they think they’re clearly revoking consent. If their partner hears “Don’t stop!!!” it means the opposite to them.
That’s why we should all always err toward caution with regard to manners of consent, especially with new/unfamiliar partners… But also why I have to consider a possibility that this was a horrible mistake on his part, not an intentionally violent act.
Nobody is saying that, don’t you dare twist my words.