Thank you for your kind words.
Language being as subtle as it is I think it’s an impossible task to construct what sounds like an algorithm to do this. Determined people will always find a way through it.
I want fewer rules and more collective responsibility - either short term rotating mods that include all regs, or no mods at all.
I’m not talking about an algorithm.
I’m talking about something you could have used back then to hold mods accountable. Rules aren’t just for posters. If you felt there was bias, would it not have been easier/more effective if you could have presented solid evidence to show it?
“here’s the rule, here’s how many times so-and-so was banned for violating it, here’s how many times whosit was banned, can’t you see the bias?”
We on the left are supposed to love facts and be convinced by evidence.
I’m a scientist, if you could have pointed numbers at me, I might have been more convinced. As it was, all I had to go off of were feelings.
I don’t honestly know.
I (and others) have been banned for “body of work”. Also, it’s been stated that due to the number of bans I and others have had, if we and someone unbanned all make the same unacceptable post we, the previously banned, will get a much longer temp than the 1 day the other will.
I’m not convinced it’s possible to roll this style of modding into what you’re suggesting.
There’s a huge problem here in that bans aren’t recorded and shown on a single page (meb has suggested this in his RFC), and reasons are often not even given for the ban.
Imagine if someone banned you for a few days and didn’t bother to explain why.
If the schuh fits? I could be wrong, I think I called it a “PM putsch”, so if you’re not a fan of alliteration I can see objecting. But here is the key difference, if I throw a word like ‘putsch’ around you know, or should know, that since I obviously don’t believe that the captains are Nazis, my use of the word is hyperbole, an attempt to be both cute and provocative. When you call people on this site brain dead republicans, and suggest they should fly blue lives matter flags, it doesn’t come across that you don’t actually believe those things about those posters.
P.S. isn’t it nice to be able to search for posts to refresh your recollection of what was said?
Yeah that’s going to be a fundamental core values issue that I don’t think we can ever resolve. 6ix is the definition of shitposting in my book.
So if someone kept posting pro-Nazi memes here we couldn’t perma-ban them? Where do you draw the line with this one-size-fits-all stance?
Well, that’s the second part of my question (I guess I didn’t say there’d be a second part, lol)
Beyond having concrete rules to point to, the second part is having a standardized list of acceptable consequences for posters who break said rules.
I 100% agree with you, and I think we (all mods over the past however many years, not just me and Wookie) have done a terrible job keeping track, but part of it is, we also don’t have any guidelines for what should be appropriate consequences.
of note, the bans are tracked in the mod panel we see on a poster’s profile, but nowhere public.
If it’s escalating temp bans, that’s one thing. If it’s something, else, we should talk about that. But having zero standards leads to hurt feelings and accusations.
If …
People always say what if Nazi this Nazi that but afaik this has never happened here in how many years?
It’s an extraordinary situation by definition, so the community should agree a way to deal with it the same as if someone walked into the bar you and your community own and started shouting racist bs.
The point is obviously there’s a line. I draw it at shitposting. You’re saying there is no level of shitposting that should result in a perma-ban. I don’t agree. Not much more to discuss.
It’s impossible for me to see you as engaging in this discussion in good faith Jal. The fact is that you are relentlessly toxic at the slightest provocation, which makes these demands for no rules seem like a free hand for you to be a negative influence on this forum. The follow up talk about how we could decide as a community (but without any rules) comes off as just another way for you to engage in stupid drama, which you love.
Calling Goebs “Goebbels” is even more hyperbolic than your example. So 6ix should be unbanned or your should be banned for a week, imo.
That’s just my opinion, as one member of the community. If it decides on a perma, so be it.
It seems that our disagreement here is fundamentally a question of timing.
For me, this norm (that the people in your bar don’t tolerate a racists asshole) is something that is established beforehand and is therefore obvious to everyone else there.
Am I correct in saying that you feel that these norms need not be established beforehand and instead are established on the fly, as bad things happen?
Not really. I feel the norms are already well established outside the forum, in normal everyday walks of life. Our community bar doesn’t need a set of rules pinned to the wall saying what’s not acceptable.
I love 6ix, I let the man do his thing. If calling goebs Goebbels in a clearly hyperbolic way got him banned, I’m defecting. Ok not really, but it doesn’t sound like that was the only issue.
You could just try ignoring posters that you believe are shitposting. Personally, I think he was making some very good points. IMO perms should be reserved for things like racism, threats, doxxing, and a handful of 2+2 undesirables who earned them via lifetime achievement awards for general deplorableness. (Although the community clearly doesn’t agree with me on the last category, so I’ve generally dropped arguing about it some time back.)
Going to attempt some community-driven modding here and request that you guys reconsider posts like these. These posts have not added to the discussion nor have they lowered the temperature.
putting my mod hat back on for a sec.
When I was asked to do this, I was assured that it wouldn’t be much work. And it wasn’t…for a while.
When all this started up, we asked for new mods and had like, one volunteer. Because it was looking more and more like a shitty job with a lot of work involved. I get it. Most people don’t want to do it.
When I see your suggestions for community modding for something like Suzzer’s example, I admit I cringe a little inside because that approach actually makes the mod job MORE intensive (and even if the job of the mods in your scenario is just to post the poll or manage the thread, not to ban or anything) than it is if we have established, standard norms.
it’s like preventative health care vs. reactive, in my mind. In the long run, preventative (establishing norms and consequences) costs less than reactive care (acting on each situation as it arises), and helps save lives.
Is that because the RFC + wait + poll + wait process is so bureaucratic and hard to administrate?
What’s stopping a community from just having a poll on how to deal with suzzer’s racist newb? Something could be agreed in advance and formalised, like the threshold needed but I don’t see a need to go overboard with rules and regulations that many posters people find off putting.