Good compared to what?
All poker players, yes.
Poker pros, no.
Saying the guy is not good at poker is just crazy. He’s made a life playing poker.
Sure there are levels to this. But he is good a poker.
I’m guessing Hellmuth didn’t realize Doug had a set beat when he made that speech. Doug talks about the laydown at the beginning of his channel’s stream of the Limitless/Holz match (in which he provides commentary for the match). Cliffs: it wasn’t even an exploit, just a pure GTO fold, indicating how bad Hellmuth’s shove was.
Btw I forgot how cute Fedor is 
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Fyp
I know you love to nit pick and all
But the dude has 15 wsop bracelets and is know world wide as a pro poker player
Sure maybe he’s not as good as Phil Ivey but to claim he’s not good at poker is lol retarded
Just stop man
Not sure if you guys have been watching the new High Stakes Poker. It’s been pretty good, but nothing near the magic of the first go round.
Anyway, Ivey was on 2 different times and it was kind of bizarre. He barely played a hand (I think he played 0 on his 2nd appearance), looked pretty awful, and then suddenly leaves without any explanation or even saying goodbye to the other players.
They said he wasn’t feeling well.
lol standard 500+bb preflop shove to a 3b
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You keep giving phil ivey as an example of a good player which is just weird
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This is just a bad take. PH is not a great cash player, he is undoubtedly a great tournament player. Those are two very different disciplines. He was back to back wsop poy runner up in some of the biggest fields ever. His bracelets are in no way limited to the before times. You have to respect his results in tournaments.
This isn’t some crazy thing either. Lots of tournament pros suck at cash games. It’s a very different goal to play every hand to maximize the EV of a specific hand versus playing to maximize your chances of winning a tournament.
It goes the other way around too, but cash game pros generally aren’t as aware of it.
All these 2008 takes are so weird.
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Also i’m assuming phil is a huge winner in his private warriors/silicon valley game, i would say he’s an amazing cash player.
That is, hellmuth is very good at making money doing a lot of things that have nothing to do with his poker playing skills.
He’s a mediocre poker player compared to your average pro and a terrible player compared to your average top player
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4 bracelets since 2008 with 2 runner wsop poy finishes.
It’s a good thing we know a bit about poker today to analyze actual hands.
If you want to go the “white magic” route be my guest, but you’re not on the good take train here.
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It’s possible Hellmuth is better than a lot of elite players at exploiting bad players but significantly worse at playing against elite players.
I would expect Hellmuth to beat a live 2/5 or 5/T game.
Exactly
All of us former poker players are like
Well yeah he’s got bracelets but he isn’t TheHip41 good
¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Back when i wasn’t a lowly immigrant i played a relative high stakes home game. The biggest winner by far was a terrible nit with zero idea of poker theory and some of his own theories that were based on waves of momentum.
He just played 5% of the hands, talked a lot of shit and got money thrown at him because people hated him. He made well over 500k a year.
Is he a good player? No by any means. Does it matter? No he makes the most money.
If a good player is a player that makes a lot of money, phil is definitely one of the best. I think phil is a far far better cash game player than a tournament one for those reasons
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Are we seriously debating if the best poker player is the one that makes the most money in a game?
Didn’t expect that tbh.
I dont want to sound mean, but you don’t seem to know what you’re debating.
You said phil is bad at cash games and good in tournaments, which means you believe being good isn’t aligned to making money, which is literally the opposite of what you think you are arguing.
Nah I think we’re using different metrics for what’s good. You seem to be completely discounting the social aspects of a poker game, boiling it down to only making sound game theory decisions and math.
That would be a massive mistake, especially in the game you describe. One of the most profitable things to do in poker is to tilt other players into making stupid decisions.