So here’s more of a general poker question. Gotten great advice here already before that is much appreciated. I use to have a better grasp on it but now I’m just a weekend warrior that plays in winter time around here because I’m not golfing in 20 degree weather on Saturday.
Yesterday I made a 3b! to $52 on the button after a raise of $17 and a call. Both folded and one commented after that I’m such a tight player. The other agreed. Admittedly it was my first 3b! in like 4 hours of play.
I don’t necessarily like that image when I play. I am definitely not an OMC (yet). What hands should I be doing this with and what players should I target when three betting lighter? Obviously this is super general and table dependent but I see lots of the same folks and would like to get paid off when I have it. I’d say 90% of my game is a 1/2 $500 Max and then I dabble in the 2/5 $1k Max occasionally.
At least according to Jonathan Little - 3bet bluff with hands that aren’t quite good enough to call. So if calling with AJ vs. that villain seems bad, add it to your range as a bluff. If you get called you still are pretty live.
I think Doug Polk likes to 3-bet bluff stuff like suited connectors and suited wheel cards - since you have a blocker.
Obviously you need to pick the right villain who’s raising light. It never works in my games - they just don’t steal that much.
Speaking of - here’s a hand for everyone to mock and say they just don’t understand (probably justified).
Villain had been super active preflop - raising a ton - but then playing pretty weak post. Lots of hands wind up checked to the river.
Blinds 800/1600-1600 - 49k effective stacks - I have 84o in BB.
He minraises from button. I put him on somewhere from top 75% to 100%.
Yes I know nits, it’s a fold. Just fold. Everything is always a fold now and forever. But I really just didn’t want to give up the first time my BB was minraised from LP right as the blinds were getting big. Yes I would rather have better cards but these are the cards I had. In retrospect I probably should have just folded face up to show him I’m playing back with anything but bottom 10%.
But I call instead. With plans to get sticky. Maybe I should have just reraise - but he probably calls anything less than a shove pre.
Flop AK3 rainbow. I check. He bets 3800 into 5400 pot. I make it 10k. My thinking is either he has an A or K or he doesn’t and even a small scary reraise should get rid of him if he doesn’t. He calls and I’m done with the hand.
Turn K. Ugh, I figure he has to have an A or K and if I wasn’t before now I am really done with the hand.
River 5. I just can’t imagine a universe where he doesn’t have an A or a K. I guess he could have a lower PP but that seems a lot less likely. Check check. He has QJ.
I suck. I know it. But If I never try this shit I’m never going to learn. Better now at low stakes when I have a full time job to replenish the BR.
Also even in the hands I suck villain usually sucks worse and to me show why bluffing may almost never make sense in my games. Nobody ever folds except when you shove river with the nuts after setting them up on the flop and turn. Yes I gave him something like reasonable odds to call with his gutshot. But 95% of the time he’s going to be facing another bet on the turn.
What are you even check raising for value there? Exactly A3 and K3? 33? You’re check calling something like A8, right? So you don’t have a ton of value hands. But you have lots of gutshots. J10, 45, 24, 25, QT. If you’re calling with 84o I can’t imagine you’re folding even 25o. So bluff with those. If you’re check raising the flop with 84 then you are way way way too bluff heavy. Hell if you bluff with all your gutshots you’re probably bluffing too much.
Yeah you can’t really tell here if villain is evaluating flop, recognizing you have a very thin (if any) value range, and deciding to float turn or if its just a fishy “I haz a gutshot” call with bad odds. I’d lean toward the latter, but I really don’t think a float or even a flop reraise is unreasonable from a good player. As played though from villain’s shoes I would still probably just recommend a fold without strong reads and either a flop check or smaller betsize.
You really just want a standard 3bet range (TT+, AQ+) and some suited connectors, suited broadways, and suited aces mixed in. Its fine to 3bet loose/passive players (with loose open-raises not just looseness in general) with AJo, KQo, maybe ATo. But as a general rule, just don’t ever 3bet offsuit garbage, its completely unnecessary in these games.
So this isn’t enough to establish the loose/aggro image you might want, but that’s pretty much an impossibility with correct play. You just have to take the “nit” needles play a normal game and collect.
What about reraising pre then committing myself to shoving an ace flop?
I feel like his preflop minbet range is polarized to maybe QQ+ and KJ-,A8-. I think any PP or big ace makes it 2.5 or 3x. Obviously I’m not sure but I’d weight it away from a lot of big aces.
Also as played - shoving river might push him off a weak ace. I’d put him all in after the re-enter period, which generally slows these guys way way down (later he tank-called my 8BB UTG shove for half his stack - turned over TT - lol at not shoving with ppl left to act). I was worried about him having a K. But him checking behind makes that less likely.
Even the whole disaster hand as played bought me some not fucking with my blinds for a while.
Much appreciated response. I just hate the “nit/tight” image. I use to drink beer when I played but try not to do that anymore. Maybe I can throw a button straddle every hour or so out there.
My local regs think I’m a nit just because I don’t play 40-50% of hands in the early levels like they do. Then I start shoving with 12 BBs and they fold stuff like AJ face up. They put me in the category of the other nit regs who just wait for monsters the whole tournament.
They’re slowly catching on but I suspect they still think I’m too tight early and then go bananas late.
I think because I play with the same bunch of players and I want to get paid off when I have the joint. I’m usually 200+ BB deep so throwing chips around is fun too.
Nah, whether it’s flop or pre if you want to punish a possibly overly loose or polarized open you really just have to be absolutely sure with the second part of the necessary read in that your opponent has to be folding garbage and even marginal hands when action gets back to them. Usually preflop looseness also translates to postlflop looseness. Even with a solid read you want your bluffs to at least have something (suitedness or an aceblocker).
I like the give-up, I mean yeah he might fold a weak ace but without a strong read why not just go with the default that people call weak aces way too often.
I went to the Gardens to play a tourney - but Poker Atlas LIED. There was no tourney. So I figured since I drove all the way out there I’d play some 2/3 cash.
Won $400, not bad. Although I basically got hit by the deck. I’m not sure I made anyone fold a better hand the entire night. I did however get them to call with worse hands, many many many times. I seriously don’t know if there are many legit bluff opportunities at this level. I know I’m not talented enough to pull it off.
A couple hands:
Early on, I’m in BB, UTG straddles (he was the only one doing that, seemed like a solid TAG-ish guy). Multiple callers, I call with 4s3s, UTG checks.
Flop 6s4d3d - I check, straddler makes it 20 for close to pot. It folds around to me. I have $245, he has me covered. I start thinking if I really want to play for stacks with bottom 2 pair when his PF range is maybe bottom 90% (assuming he raises with premium)? So I wuss out and call.
Turn 6c - of course. We both check.
River 2d - he bets big, I fold.
The flop is the big decision here obviously. If I am reraising, am I folding to a shove? I just didn’t see him leading into everyone w/o a very strong hand. I guess he might have been on a combo draw - but my equity isn’t great against that either.
Hand 2 - is vs. splashy guy with about $120. Lots of limpers, I make it $40 from the SB with KsKc. Only splashy guy calls. Flop As6d4c. I guess I’m supposed to c-bet here but I decide to check because I feel like with only $80 behind he is likely to just check w/o an ace. He bets $45 for a little over half his stack. I fold. Too weak?
Checking the 43s OTF there seems bad. I think call is good against the straddler though, your equity vs his continuing range against an x/r is not very good. One of the problems with checking the flop is that you can’t x/r in spots like this, so there’s no value in “trapping”, and you really don’t want it to check around and have the turn be a diamond, or a 5, or a 7, or whatever. Against a crowd you do need to protect your hand.
Standard is not to cbet flops like that with KK, there’s no point. Check fold is fine if he’s not a guy that you’ve seen bluffing in similar spots. Most people won’t mess with the raiser with an ace on the board.
I played tonight as well, some PLO. I won $200, not really any interesting spots though. I had T986 double suited one hand and raised on the button behind a crowd of limpers, both blinds flatted and UTG, a young guy, repotted, basically announcing aces. I can’t really fold there but I wasn’t sure if I should flat or shove. I opted for flatting and another guy called and later said he had J987 double suited, which isn’t ideal for me. Still not sure what the play was.
It depends a bit on stack sizes and how many other players in the pot there are. If there is a lot of potential dead money between you and UTG from players who called the 3bet but will fold to the likely 5bet if you shove, then I would raise. If it won’t knock anyone out, I would be more likely to call and use position, but I might still shove.