Probably just muck, that’s a strong line from BB. Just has a big overpair a ton of the time and is never folding it.
Chris - do you 3-bet light in position vs. very bad straightforward players? Doug Polk says it’s a winning formula at low stakes tournies. He says they’ll call but then fold most flops.
Some very bad players have the ability to level themselves into a hero call, especially if they can beat AK. I play against a lot of straightforward bad players who limp/call AK and 99 pre and basically play passively if they are worried they are beat. What do you think Polk thinks our 3bet range should be against these players?
I think he’s talking more about earlier in the tourney - not when your 3-bet is a shove.
Looking back I wish I had called to peel a 5 or a 6 - i was getting odds. Probably fold is better. I agree with you.
I play cash rather than tournies, but yeah, he is correct. Quite a few players play so passively though that I’m not crazy about threebetting them because of how often they show up with premiums. Against the right chunk of the player pool though, definitely quite profitable.
Are you? 6 outs is like 1 in 7 to 1 in 8 and you’re not getting laid 6 to 1. The problem with drawing is 1) none of your outs are to the nuts and 2) your hand will be very poorly concealed if you hit. If you hit the 5 you’re getting paid if someone has an ace but everything else is check folding.
Was factoring implied odds against an Overpair or ace - But you are probably right
Ended up getting it in against BB’s kings and binked. Final tabled but got 6th. First tourney i played in a while and felt I had butchered that hand in particular.
I’m talking about when you still have room for post-flop action. They will sometimes call down with any pair if AK hasn’t improved.
If you shove you’re probably folding out 67 right? So a 5 w/o a board pair should be the effective nuts?
Yeah I’ve been trying some things. But nothing in the way of “bluff” or “light” seems to work with much success.
So far I know this is a winning formula early/mid game: play tight pre but try to see cheap flops with ok hands that play well multi-way, play mostly abc poker post, fold top pair sometimes, c-bet and stab at pots no one seems interested in - but otherwise basically never run big bluffs. But do be willing to take some risks to get a stack I can own the bubble with.
And then late game (like 1 table from the bubble to the end), where they flip a switch from super splashy to way too tight: own the shit out of them.
I’m just not sure if it’s the optimal winning formula. Am I leaving money on the table by not 3-betting light in position or other exotic stuff?
When I get card dead they all think I’m the old man nit waiting for aces - based on the way they open and call raises with like 40% of hands. Maybe that’s a good thing when I play off it later. But it does keep me from getting paid sometimes.
your gutter should be totally live and might well stack a donk’s ace, your 6 should be okay 6’s shouldn’t be good tho unless BB is an aggro tard so unless you’re up against a hero folder I’m calling this bet and seeing a turn. Odds too good not to I think but you guys seem to hate SB play where I dgaf. Just a different style.
lol @ anyone being afraid of the 6 not being the nuts on a 5 here. A 6 is good too unless EP has a 5 somehow and that’s pretty darn unlikely. You also can easily bluff on an ace. BB can’t have a five unless he’s bad at the game.
This sounds completely right. Also, if your not the first better you should probably be folding mid game. I pretty much play for big hits mid game. I had very good results like a decade ago online (in terms of % not big $; multitabled tourneys but rarely played over $100 buyins) but have hardly played since and have no doubt forgotten a lot of what I knew. I think I mainly just played Harrington style. If I recall, like 4ish double ups (one or two of which may be flips) will get you to the FT in a 200 person tourney (often need one suckout/hit draw as well). Don’t try to win hands with TP early or mid for any real money unless you have TK, and often not then. Try to steal for at least a sustenance level blinds/antes late.
I played that Friday gardens tourney a few weeks ago. Was 1.5 hours late to reg. and was nursing like 1.5 starting at like 3 hrs in (M was like 16). Had an all in called with like Qs10s on like a 3, 7, 8 ss board and lost to an unpaired straight draw. That’s the problem with live tourneys–player’s aren’t that good but you can’t just open more tables and wait for statistics to do its thing.
Yea I am preparing to play a live tourney but think I’ll probably regret it. It’s often correct to play really tight most of the tournament as you stated and it’s way too boring to me having one table dealing maybe 25 hands an hour. Brutal. I can deal with it in live cash by bantering with people and you can splash chips around if you’re bored but you cant really do that in mtt’s.
One thing I’ve struggled with is when to call a preflop 3bet shove with worse than ace-high. I’m fairly certain I play too tight in this spot. My problem is that I present a very tight table image and I can’t figure out when my opponent says eff it and shoves with a range of any pair, any ace, and any two broadway when I know they think I am tight.
Never? Villan ain’t playing your table image.
You’re asking basically when you should call to hopefully get a flip, which is never. You can push all in if you’re very low, under 10bb usually, but you should never call. I fold AJ to villian 90% of the time if I’ve got 15 bb. I fold 100% with A9 or less unless he’s a spaz, and kq is almost certainly a fold, and anything else is not serious.
edit: The above is too conservative because I’m incorrectly using BB to mean M (BB+ SBs + antes). With an M of 15 after raising 2.5bb, then I’m probably folding AJ or KQ a lot if villan has me covered. With an M of 20 I’m definitely folding AJ and KQ. But if I have villian covered I probably call if the odds are better than like 40/60 and I won’t be crippled (M under like 7) if I lose.
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The spots I am talking about are generally where villain is a short stack 3bet shoving for less than 15bb.
Let’s say you open to 2.5bbbb from middle position with a stack of 22bb and an above-average local player who knows you are tight but don’t have a nitty opening range shoves for 9bb. What is the top of your folding range?
I call if getting like 2:1, fold otherwise. For what you describe, probably something like Q9 or better should call.
If he shoved with 9bb, then you need 6.5bb to win 18 bb. So maybe call with J8 or better. (And adjust your theoretical win probability based on the player.)
correction: you need 6.5 bb to win 11.5 bb, which is consistent with like J8 calling.
edit2: the other issue being that if you fold, then you have 20bb (so M is like 10?), and if you go all in and lose, you have like 12 bb (M of like 5?). M of 10 is really low, M of 5 is basically needing to push with any A if you’re first in. Given your relatively desperate condition if you fold, I’d be more inclined to call the 3 bet even if you have like a 35% chance to win (ie, call even if you know he has 2 overs).
Funny hand from the final table at my local tourney last night. 9-handed, 2 shorties have like 3BBs, everyone else has 8-25 BBs.
Novice lady with like 9BBs limps UTG. 2 callers, blinds come along. Flop A74r. Blinds check, she shoves. Button calls with A5 or something. She turns over KK and is out.
After she left, a couple of the regs were like “What was she doing?”. Well obviously she was trying to slowplay. At which point the regs all agreed that slowplaying KK UTG 9-handed with 9BBs is fine. But you have to let it go when an ace comes. #POKER
Are you sure they were all being sincere? I’ve nodded and agreed with almost every piece of poker wisdom I’ve ever heard no matter how stupid. 
Actual recent conversation:
Him: Sorry, I only played 96 because 9s have been so hot today.
Me: Of course! You gotta do it.
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Some might have been nodding along like me. But some definitely agreed.