Organically extracted free-range agriculture discussion

[Trolly]

@JohnnyTruant

But just curb the whole heroes in lab coats bullshit in the meantime, k?

How about no.

[VoteForSocialists]

@JohnnyTruant

So if the genie is always out of the bottle as the end point, fine. But just curb the whole heroes in lab coats bullshit in the meantime, k?

norman borlaug is a hero. i sincerely hope you are in the minority on this.

[runout]

@VoteForSocialists

norman borlaug is a hero

Quite possibly the person that eased the most human suffering in the history of humans. Actually, change “quite possibly” to “almost certainly”.

[TempletonFearrariIII]

Socialism Is When The Government Does Stuff

[microbet]

Henry A. Wallace

[microbet]

The hooray science people immediately accuse anyone with any doubt about any technology in any situation of being brainless absolutist zealots. It’s always projection with you people.

[mosdef]

This doesn’t sound right. Science and technology aren’t the same thing. Burning oil to generate energy is technology. Observing the impact on climate is science. These things are not harmonious.

[clovis8]

This is a critical distinction in these discussions.

[Trolly]

@VoteForSocialists

norman borlaug is a hero.

Literally every concern any of you have about agribusiness, GMOs, the environment, sustainability, etc. is a thing the guys in labcoats have been worrying about for decades.

[mosdef]

To be fair, its hard to practice science without technology, and its hard to build powerful technology without science.

[mosdef]

This sounds right to me. It’s the people in business suits we need to worry about.

[microbet]

And other people in lab coats are doing things like developing new ways to frack. It’s not Johnny who is being an absolutist. It’s you.

[suzzer99]

We all agree Monsanto is extremely evil, right? No one’s going to try to justify selling seeds for crops that don’t bear seeds are they? Or crops that need a special chemical to unlock?

I read about these things but it’s been a while and I could be remembering wrong.

[ViridianDreams]

@mosdef

I generally agree with your end of this debate, but on the other hand burning oil and coal also lifted large percentages of the global population out of poverty. So it’s perfectly sensible to ask tough questions about whether GMO use is a sustainable track. But equally important is to make that assessment based on science and reason.

In my experience, the anti-GMO side of this debate is usually the most far off-base when it comes to letting science and reason guide the discussions and policy solutions. Really agriculture is too dependent on a multitude of local conditions to make the type of blanket condemnations about “indiscriminate use of pesticides” and “chemical fertilizers depleting the souls” that people like JT casually toss around as gospel without much clue as to what they are actually talking about.

[econophile]

I think I’ve lost the thread here

Arguments that are being advanced may or may not include:

• Monsanto is bad
• GMOs are bad
• Agriculture is bad
• Science is bad
• Technology is bad
• Knowledge is bad
• Particular applications of science, technology, knowledge are bad

[suzzer99]

But also living in small self-organizing communes that grow their own organic food is bad because WE WANT GLORIOUS PEOPLE’S REVOLUTION.

[microbet]

Everyone is responsible for what they do. If someone in a business suit pays you to frack, it’s still you fracking.

[Jalfrezi]

@suzzer99

But also living in small self-organizing communes that grow their own organic food is bad because WE WANT GLORIOUS PEOPLE’S REVOLUTION.

This is a bad post. Disparaging something that already exists and works well without any sort of revolution as some student-level Che-wall-poster thinking is awful.

[suzzer99]

I’ve read that 3 times and have no idea what you’re trying to say.

[Jalfrezi]

What you want to cast as only achievable by what you call a GLORIOUS REVOLUTION already exists and thrives without one.

Clear now?