I don’t want to stifle REAL objection and raising of voices outside this echo chamber. Too many people seem to think that straw-manning people like me as right wing or shitlib is “fighting the good fight”. I am sure they get some sense of superiority out of it but other than that my argument is that is serves basically no other good.
Everyone on this forum has essentially the same broad policy goals. It’s not doing work or being brave to point out something we all know over and over. I give zero points for the being the 100th person to point out Biden isn’t for m4a on this site. Points are awarded for writing an oped explaining why being against m4a is financially stupid and morally repugnant. This might change a mind.
My main problem is I guess I am done and bored with the naval gazing, especially the self-riotousness over the navel-gazing. It’s time to put in the hard work of actually making shit happen.
Johnny I’m not ignoring your point I am agreeing with. I’m just saying the target is not the 100 people on this forum who are 98% politically aligned. The target has to be outside this forum which takes the work I posted at the start of this thread.
Do you see how this can be interpreted as, charitably, gatekeeping and telling people to vent their anger through the “proper” channels or, uncharitably, telling the left to shut up in the spaces you occupy?
I’m honestly a bit confused on why you think we are disagreeing. I am obviously doing a poor job of explaining my position.
Let me try this way.
I think,
mocking and pointing out Biden’s faults has very little utility here, although not zero as Micro correctly pointed out,
mocking and pointing out Biden’s faults outside the echo chamber has a huge utility and should be our main goals right now which is why I started this thread,
a few people on this forum love to straw man me as some kind of centrist because they get to call me a name and feel good they have “done their part for the progressive cause”. Let me be clear this is obviously not you.
It’s only gatekeeping if I was saying only to stop making completely obvious criticisms of Biden that are already agreed on by literally 100% of the people who post here. Saying Biden isn’t for M4A here is like being proud to proclaim the sun is super hot.
My point is the critiques of Biden are more important than ever right now but outside of UP! Let’s focus our attention there.
To be fair I conceded micro corrected me and there was some utility to the posting here but I still think it is very low, especially when compared to the good that same energy could do outwards.
There is zero chance Biden is going to stop putting people in cages who come here undocumented. He is going to be better but until he stops putting them in cages people should complain here, there and everywhere.
Plant them seeds.
Also it’s not like everyone here is against policing immigrants. There are minds to change.
Do you think there should be open borders? If so ok. If not what type of policing of immigrants should we have for those who come here undocumented? Catch and release until their trial? Deport? Lock them up until their hearings?
And trial for what? For them to credibly show they are afraid of dying from a gunshot? Because not having food isn’t a reason that will get anyone asylum.
Clovis. I’ve grunched some of this thread but a recurring theme seems to be that you object to being called a centrist. Is that right?
Assuming that’s so, do you think that wanting to move Biden to the left is incompatible with being a centrist? Because it seems to me that Biden could move say 30% or more to the left from his current axis position and still be in the centre.
I won’t speak for Clovis but to me whats pretty unproductive and can damage the culture of the forum is wielding the label “centrist” the way that Trumpkins wield “libtard”. I have probably done this myself out of frustration with the eDems but its can be a net negative thing. There is plenty to hate about the “centrist” policies of the eDems so its understandable that this happens
When you and others say centrist what you really mean is “awful piece of shit scumbag” so ya I object. Of course, it’s the exact same people who go insane if the term Berniebro is used.
Of ya, there is also the little fact that by no definition, using no political spectrum, and in no measurable way am I a centrist. I’m left of like 95% of the population. The people here who are left of 98% of the population can’t wrap their heads around the idea that everyone 97% and less are not centrists.
Let’s not forget that shitlib is widely used too, commonly directed at me. I’m done with letting it pass.
I see as usual it comes down to definitions again.
If you define left/right/centrist by the preferences of a population you render the terms variable across time and country…
These should imo be defined not by populations (which are in flux) but by political creed - so from maximal communality to minimal (ie maximal individuality) - and then we’ll all know what we’re talking about.
So… you’re in no way in the centre of the US population politically, but afaik I’d put you firmly there in terms of creed, and without any hint of insult intended.
M4a
Open borders
Abolishment of all special protections for religion
Completely open women’s right to choose
Defunding police
Dismantling the prison system
Abolishing the court bond system
Massive tax hike on the rich
Even more massive estate tax hike
Tax hikes on everyone above 100k
Free housing for the poor and homeless
UBI
Free childcare
Free university
Free sick leave
Unionization
Massive funding of climate change research
Huge increase in funding foreign support agencies
Massive reduction in military spending
Total gender freedom and marriage/adoption
Racial politics training in all schools
Reparations
Hate laws
Domestic terrorism laws
I get called centrist for two reasons;
One, because a few of the worst posters on the site need a target to jab at so they can pretend they are doing something for the cause,
Two, because I don’t live under the delusion that unless every single one of the things I listed above is enacted immediately we have made zero progress.
Again, those same people who call me a centrist just mean “piece of shit scumbag”. They don’t mean anything to do with actual politics. It’s pure code wording.
