Turning Red is good, but it’s emotional impact is definitely going to be strongest if you check a few boxes:
Went through an awkward female puberty
Have Chinese heritage
Lived in or around Toronto
Did at least one of these things in the early 2000s
If you don’t check those boxes, then remember that there’s a big difference between “bad movie” and “movie made to resonate with people different from me.”
Like, do I give a shit that Clovis doesn’t like Deadpool and Wolverine? lol, no, of course not. That movie isn’t for him, but it is for me. It’s not an elite movie, but it’s not a bad movie, either, no matter what he says. I can grant that some if not most if not all of the very best movies resonate with almost everyone, but it’s also fine, even good, to make movies that don’t cater to the lived experiences of cishet white male Americans but that do cater to other people. I think a movie (also novel, or any popular art form, really) should be judged by its appeal to its target audience first and foremost, and then by its appeal to a broader audience second. If you’re not the target audience for a movie, learn to spot that, and then have some humility when criticizing it if it’s not for you. Don’t yuck someone else’s yum, as they say.
I just saw it back in March or something for the first time and already feel like I owe it a full rewatch. It’s sincerely inspiring in a more meaningful way than you might see that word thrown around for replacement-level underdog stories or whatever.
While I bide my time before rewatch, I tend to fire up the trailer for it at least once a month just to get a little bit of it again.
This all sounds reasonable on the surface until you really dig into to. Firstly, MCU films are the quintessential cis white man film. Secondly, the existence of Deadpool and Wolverine very much yucks my yum. Why is your yum more important than mine? The rise of the MCU is a big driver with the reduction of the kind of film I love so when I hate on the MCU I’m not yucking your yum, I’m making a argument about artistic choice. The dollars spent on those films are not being spent on other films that advance the art form.
All that said, I agree there is a difference between bad movie and not for me. This is why there are a few comic book films I’ve argued that are good. It’s just the exception, not the rule. My issue is we are in a place where the industry and audience don’t care if it’s good. They just care if it has comic book characters and lots of boom bang.
It is of course, very good to make media that doesn’t cater specifically to cishet white males (and I try to view things with that lens as best as I can), but I don’t have to pretend I liked it.
I even mentioned in my criticism that Bao by the same writer/director was one of the best short films I’ve ever seen. It definitely didn’t “cater to people like me”, and even checks off 3/4 of the boxes in your list above. Hell, my favorite Pixar movie ever is Coco, which again, clearly not made for me.
I’m not going to judge anyone for liking Turning Red (though I did see an online list that had it ranked as the 4th best Pixar movie that made me wince a bit); I can only be honest about my feelings and rate it accordingly.
But again, what art is or isn’t being made, being bad or good, is coming down to your personal taste. If a filmmaker is motivated, especially if loaded with talent, that film you want is getting made. Small films you don’t want are also still being made. There are still far more indie type movies being made today than even 20 years ago. Arrival type budgeted movies aren’t really being made right now, but a lot can be done on much lower budgets these days. There is a lot of ‘room’ out there and it’s filled every year.
Let it be said that Deadpool 3 shouldn’t stand in for comic book movies in general. I like lots of comic book movies; I like way more of them than I dislike. So I bring no general anti-comic energy to the table when I repeat: that movie is dreadful.
I really don’t think the dividing line with that specific movie is about comic book movies; it’s about whether some people inexplicably find specifically Ryan Reynolds to be funny. It’s clear enough to me from overall reactions to that movie, as I sigh and close my eyes and shake my head to even acknowledge this: many people seemingly do.
Ideally we as a society would all band together with the opinion that Reynolds is obnoxious as fuck so that he could be perpetually cast as a villainous douchebag like his Adventureland character (he’s good in that one, as I assume he could be in other movies if cast similarly). But since that’s not happening right now, I can just default to skipping most or all of his starring projects.
It’s also obvious the rise of rhe MCU has had some pretty bad outcomes for the business and for the ability of various stories to be told. There are tons of analysis out now about how the reliance on $200m+ budget films is casing a huge failure for all parts of the industry.
The MCU had an unprecedented decade-long run in which the worst movies of the bunch were still entertaining (I don’t think any of the movies from Iron Man through Endgame were bad, a few were forgettable though. I’m looking at you, Thor: The Dark World). The best were fantastic.
That stretch of MCU did an incredible job of developing characters and creating a through-line to the point where, after a decade, audiences had a strong emotional connection to them. Even people who never read a single comic book in their lives. Infinity War was devastating. Endgame was both devastating and a catharsis. Tremendous culmination of the run (would’ve been a notch worse if I wasn’t in it).
The decline was clearly after Endgame. Marvel started churning out way too many shows and movies. They couldn’t keep the quality up with that many productions and the movies stopped becoming events that audiences couldn’t wait to see. For me, the big problem was that the TV shows became required homework in order to fully understand the movies. If you don’t have Disney+, sorry, the impact of the movies will go over your head. And then you skip a movie, fall behind, and stop caring.
There have been some good productions post-Endgame - Guardians of the Galaxy 3, for example, was great. Hopefully for Marvel and the fans, Deadpool & Wolverine’s success will revive things (and even as fun as it was, there are so many references to the X-Men movies that tons of the humor and nostalgia is lost on younger audiences). Should be interesting to see how they do with Fantastic Four.
I’m saying that about what you want made, not whether what is made is bad or good. You seemingly objectively think what you want made is good and what you don’t want made is bad. Movies don’t work like that.
Marvel is doing the same thing Universal did with their monster movies. The industry will be fine, it alwasy goes from crisis to crisis, amazing movies will still be made. Go watch Hellbender if you want a fun indie horror/drama made by some weird family instead of a big studio. It’s never been easier for creative people to make a movie and get it out there.
I am glad that this is a card they managed to hold back from the franchise through Endgame. I’m not an avid comic book reader, but from what I have read, Fantastic Four is easily some of the best stuff. The choice to do it as a period piece is intriguing and it sure would be nice if they didn’t feel the need to immediately integrate them with the rest of the MCU right away.
It’s never been easier for creative people to make a movie and get it out there.
This is the point. I once did work for a movie where I literally said I thought it was the worst movie I’d ever seen. And yet that filmmaker easily gets financing of numerous movies that he writes and directs. He has made 6 movies since that one in 2021 and has 3 more upcoming. Regardless of the quality of his work, that is extremely impressive. Anything is possible in this industry with the right motivation.
It may be true that you think you believe that but what you say about a lot of movies betrays that idea. I’d like you to appreciate that everyone in the business making a movie is trying very hard regardless of the end result.
Are you familiar with Tom and Jerry cartoons? If so, what is your take on the Gene Deitch directed cartoons and how they fit into the canon? The most famous of those is Dicky Moe.