Learning to speak a new language as an adult (experiences, struggles, tips, stories)

Good info, thanks!

I guess it’s lucky for me that my first foreign language was French. I got the toughest romance language out of the way early, but progress was slow. If I had to guess, it took me about 9 months in Spanish to reach the same level as 2 years in French. I’m not sure if that’s a function of Spanish being a lot easier or the fact that it’s quicker learning each progressive language b/c your brain is more accustomed and you know which methods work best for you.

Portuguese pronunciation does have a bit of quirks, as well as a few nasal vowel sounds, but after French, those aren’t so tricky. I think in about 5-6 months I should be at a fairly decent conversational level, and it sounds like Italian might be even quicker, so maybe I’ll learn that one too. Only thing that sucks is that Italian ain’t all that useful, but I did really love Florence and Rome, and there are dozens of places I’d like to visit there, and it’d be a good excuse to learn the language.

So I’m 95% certain I’m moving to Tbilisi, Georgia with my partner in Spring 2022. In Georgia, everyone speaks Georgian (but almost nobody else outside Georgia does), the older people tend to speak Russian, and the younger people English. Georgian is supposedly super difficult to learn, so I think it would be a bit of a waste to learn unless I was committed to living there a decade+. I’ll still learn 20 or so words b/c I think it’s always polite to at least attempt to address people in their native tongue.

So I’ve decided to try to tackle a bit of Russian. The grammar is supposedly a bitch to master, so for now I’m gonna drill vocab, which I think I’m more likely to stick with than frustrating myself with the grammar. @Smacc_25 and @zarapochka both seemed to confirm that this would be a wise approach.

I’m working my way through the English cognates, which will get me used to reading the Cyrillic alphabet and a decent base of words. Once I have 500 or so words, I will try to learn some basic grammar concepts, and simple phrases.

So far I’m working with anki and creating simple flashcards that show a Russian word, and I have to guess the translation and get to hear a pronunciation (that I got from forvo for each word). I also made reverse flashcards that show the English word and then I need to guess the spelling and pronunciation for the Russian word.

So for example, I will see this:

And then guess the translation and pronunciation. Once I’ve made my guess, I can see the answer and here the pronunciation as well as see the new Cyrillic letters that aren’t similar to our alphabet.

So far I’m pretty excited to start learning, hopefully I can keep the motivation high and keep advancing. Would love to be able to stay in Georgia next year and visit Russia and be able to make myself understood for basics.

I’ve been learning the ция (pronuced like tsee - yuh I think) ending, which translates to the -tion, -cion, -sion ending in English and makes for quite a bit of cognates.

@superuberbob and @VoteForSocialists might also find this of interest.

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Why Georgia?

Anyway, I’ll be able to tell you about it since I’ll be travelling there this summer.

As for learning Czech, I’m focusing more than vocabulary than anything else. Word order is really flexible in Czech (and I think Russian as well).

Tbilisi is becoming super popular in digital nomading circles. Has a Euro vibe to it, good food/wine, beautiful surroundings, and a ridiculously good cost of living.

Yah, same plan with Russian. Gonna try to learn some vocab and then leverage that into a bit of Czech/Polish knowledge.

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Thanks for the link, it worked! And nice to know that there are quite a few cognates, that definitely makes the task of learning Russian slightly less daunting.

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Took Spanish in high school and have a 700 day + streak on duolingo in Spanish with some Italian French and Swedish mixed in

Still haven’t got really serious about learning the language

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That’s a solid start, but I would start listening to podcasts or watching series/movies in your target language or possibly taking online classes with a teacher. My first foreign language was French, and I was drilling grammar on Babbel (similar to Duolingo) for months on end, but then when I actually tried to speak with a French person, I felt totally lost.

Depends on your goals though I suppose. If you just want to have fun with it and learn bit by bit, then it sounds like you’re going well, with an almost 2 year streak. I have a lot of fun on Duolingo myself until it gets to really complicated grammar portions.

With the languages you have, you could probably breeze through Portuguese as well. Super similar to Spanish, and I assume Italian, but don’t know for sure as it’s the only main romance language I haven’t studied much.

Spanish is my main goal. I have read a few children’s books (like Clifford) and the little prince. I listen to a few Spanish/English podcast

Haven’t watched a lot of movies or tv show. I like the idea of listening to the radio to keep getting exposure to the language

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I am fluent in English, Hollow Corporate Jargon, and Nova Scotian. Beat that.

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B01AVJ3L6E/ref=atv_dl_rdr?autoplay=1

I’m writing a chapter on the cracking of Maya Heiroglyphics right now. This video is so amazing in terms of breaking it all down with animations and graphics, and also telling the amazing story of how it took 130 years or so.

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I’m in almost the same boat, day ~670 but no high school Spanish. In addition to podcasts, I’m watching a ton of telenovelas on Netflix. I don’t know if that helps, but it’s a great excuse to watch some amazing trash TV. Sometimes @Devil has recommendations.

Oh, and the Duolingo spanish podcast is pretty great.

Once COVID goes away I’m thinking about attending some kind of casual in-person Spanish conversation meetup.

I’m only putting 2/10 effort in this project of learning Spanish. Basically just having fun with it and keeping my brain from ossifying.

¿Qué?

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何に?

Telenovelas are fun, but most of the Netflix original series are also very good as well if you want to switch it up.

Any specific recommendations? I’ve seen money heist already.

I’m helping a friend learn spanish, he’s enjoying ‘Paquita Salas’ at the moment. Some solid lols apparently.

Pluto TV (free internet tv site) has some Spanish channels. One is James Bond movies. Another is Star Trek NG. There are a couple of cooking show channels. Lots of random stuff like a lucha libre channel.

Tbh, I reached peak fluency around age 10-12. Been downhill since. I don’t really have Spanish conversations anymore because my parents are gone. I often find myself not being able to follow speech very well if an accent is unfamiliar. I think that’s because I’m unconsciously trying to translate. Very inefficient.

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If you want to stick with a Spanish (as in from Spain) accent then Élite, La Valla, and Las Chicas del Cable are all pretty good.

For Mexican accent, Club de Cuervos and Casa de las Flores are 2 comedies I loved, Ingobernable for a political drama, and Desenfrenadas for a coming of age type chick drama.

My all-time fave series in Spanish is probably Lady la Vendedora de Rosas. It’s set in Medellín and the accents/slang are super thick, but you’ll be hooked. It’s on Prime for me here in Mexico, but it was on Netflix in USA for awhile.

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I’m just learning to speak Spanish but have opinions on the Rs

ROLLED Rs
I had completely the wrong idea: I thought a rolled R was something people were controlling every bit of, that it was some repeated muscle movement they were making really really fast, like vibrato on a violin. Which was 100% wrong.

The biggest step for me to get the rolled Rs was by thinking through the best analogue, which is the horsey imitation PBPBPBPB thing where you push air through your closed lips and make your lips vibrate everywhere like crazy and go PBPBPBPBPBP like a horse. That was when I realized hey, I already know how to make a vibrating sound when I blow air out through my mouth, and I’m not controlling each individual PB-PB-PB, the sound just sort of happens when I blow a bunch of air through my face and my lips have the right tension. Now I just have to figure out how to make that happen with my tongue instead of my lips. <-Raises eyebrows up and down suggestively->

Getting the right tension is tricky, but the horsey vibration can help us here too. If you have no tension in your lips, then the air just whooshes through (try it). If you have too much tension, i.e. if your lips are too tight and the space between your lips is too narrow, then no air gets through. So to get the horsey sound you put just enough tension in your lips, and then once it’s going a little, you can really rev the engine by just increasing the tension and also the airflow a tiny bit, until eventually you put too much tension in them and the sound shuts down.

Rolled Rs are the exact same idea, but instead of vibrating your upper and lower lips together, you’re vibrating the tip of your tongue on the roof of your mouth. But where exactly on the roof of your mouth? It turns out there’s no exact perfect spot, but a whole zone that works. It works from the end of your gums (i.e. just where the back of your teeth start coming out) to maybe a half inch behind that (i.e. along the alveolar ridge heading back towards your throat), and also there’s a sweet spot in this zone where it’s easiest, which probably varies a tiny bit from person to person.

Remember—ultimately when your rolled R is working there’s going to be a teeny gap between the very tip of your tongue and this area of the roof of your mouth (just like there’s a tiny space between your lips when you’re doing the horsey sound). The shape of your tongue is going to be mostly flat, meaning it’s not going to be rolled up into an U or anything like that.

And like with so many other things, at some point there’s nothing anybody can say to teach you how to do it. You just have to tinker around and have faith that once you stumble into the right balance of tension & relaxation & location that it’s going to happen just like horseylips happens. One easy mistake to make is not actually pushing/forcing enough air over your tongue. You have to be brave! Make sure that at least some of the time you’re erring on the side of too much air. You have to commit to looking like an idiot and slobbering and continuing to be a total failure for as long as it takes. Another easy mistake to make is thinking your making the rolled R but actually gargling them at the back of the throat. A true rolled R has nothing to do with gargle.

THE OTHER SPANISH R, THE TAPPED R
not going to dwell on this but of the two R sounds, the tapped R is more important. These are the non-rolled Rs like the R like in gracias.

The most common advice for these Rs is good: you say them like you already say the a really fast D sound in american english. Say words like butter or better or matador really fast in english, and you’ll notice how the T sounds are no longer crisp Ts but they get replaced by D sounds, which we make just by tapping the tip of the tongue on the alveolar ridge.

this really threw me at first when I heard spoken spanish. People would say a word like dirección but my brain would hear didección and I would assume it was spelled with a D and then later when I saw the word written out my face would melt. And this was a real problem with words like pero, since I think spanish pedo means fart. And also perro means dog. Not cool!

anyway, this is how I locked in the tapped Rs: the first word I focused on was gracias. Instead of trying to say gracias all at once I would sound out the syllables, slowly at first but speeding up:

guh ----------------- dah ----------------- seeahs
guh ----------- dah ----------- seeahs
guh ----- dah -----seeahs
guh – dah – seeahs
guhdahseeahs

and then soon I’d be saying the word super fast all at once but now it would have the flipped D sound in there.

honestly I think the best thing to do is to stop thinking of the spanish R as having anything to do with an english R. The spanish R sounds like the soft light D in american english like in butter. Sure it looks like an R, but it’s not an R, we have to get over that, this is a different letter that only is shaped like an R, but the sound we make is really the quick light rock-skipping budder sound, the end, that’s it.

Rolled Rs are cool and btw everyone is capable of learning them, but the tapped Rs are more important to giving your accent life. It’s easy to also overcook these tapped Rs into full-on D sounds, but they’re not exactly, they’re just little glancing bumps, but they give the overall sound of these languages (spanish, italian, maybe japanese a little?) such a subtle twinkle of ripple and glint.

The bad news is it took me six months of messing around for ~five minutes/day before the rolled Rs started clicking, and then another two years to lock it in where I could roll an R in the middle of any other two sounds without loading up each one like I was about to fire a blowgun at indiana jones. Three years later I’ve improved to maybe a B-plus—but I’m still getting better and eventually it’ll be in my pocket. And in other news, I decided to experiment on my four year old niece by trying her to teach her to roll an R, and the little anklebiter learned it in literally two days. Brains are weird!

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