Not sure exactly what you mean, but EBM is strict for really good reasons. In general, studies are very biased towards a positive result in medicine. False positive studies have extremely negative effects both in resource allocation and harm to patients.
The shitty truth about medicine is that people frequently get better all on their own and a lot of our interventions are worthless, with basic stuff being far more important. That even applies to critical care, where we used to do a lot more invasive stuff regularly but it was shown to not be helpful.
Hell, with covid we were all about big interventions at first. We intubated early, paralyzed people on the vent (not something normally done), and generally did a lot of invasive intervention. Now we do less invasive options like high flow nasal cannula or BiPAP instead. The fact that we started with the big interventions instead of working up to do demonstrates nicely our bias.
I donât know how good a discussion can possibly be when the inciting action is so ridiculous.
Oh man oh man, the media and libruls will sure feel dumb if ivermectin pans out to actually work for covid. Look at this study that says it might actually be a good tx option, and look at this one that says it might be a good prophylaxis. Sure it probably wonât pan out, but oh boy if it does all these experts who read Cochrane will sure feel silly.
So naturally, being a dumb beginning to a dumber conversation I spent the morning of my day off reading ivermectin literature, and holy shit is it all just bad. Like, it has been said over and over that there isnât any statistically significant evidence ivermectin works. That isnât some exaggeration, there legit isnât evidence for its general use for treating covid. The evidence that is there might support yet another large double blind study, but even that is likely wasting resources.
Meanwhile we have a whole group of antivax assholes in the hospital all cut from the same stupid cloth demanding ivermectin, and their compatriots who arenât in the hospital yet are literally eating horse dewormer. Now the best and brightest of the horse paste eaters can do a little math and cut the horse ivermectin down to a reasonable human dose. But letâs be honest here, how many people who can competently do a unit conversion are willing to get their covid treatment from the feed store.
Now Iâm obviously not an expert in any of this nonsense, but I do have to deal with the aftermath of a potential pandemic treatment turning into a right wing meme. Worse weâve seen this script over and over and over again. So no, Iâm not interested in having a but maybe conversation about ivermectin here. The messaging should be 100% it doesnât work and every asshole doctor who prescribes it outside of a double blind study should have his license to practice medicine revoked.
Iâve often said this about chiropractors. The few times Iâve gone to one Iâm certain that the only that helped me was time. I doubt the chiropractor did anything.
The disconnect with the antivaxxers saying that 99.7% of people will survive covid and then blaming their own survival on Ivermectin is pretty telling of their dumbness.
Good post, but to be clear the conversation I was envisioning would have been much more about trying to improve the forum by analyzing our own behaviors than about resolving âthe ivermectin questionâ per se.
Yes, and also just about everything else, because itâs in the realm of possibility that most things might work. Might even be a better chance that some random OTC medication you get at CVS helps covid than ivermectin, because most wonât already have data showing no statistically significant result.
Donât forget that a study showed a statistically insignificant âbenefitâ in a study that changed their primary outcome after their original outcome failed.
There is a kernel of truth to that in that uninsured people who canât afford healthcare and medication in our hellscape of a healthcare system do try to substitute in cheaper animal medication.
It is, uh, not a validation of conservative governance or culture nor is it applicable for this example.
My take of the CN vs Bobman, someone else and Microbet derail.
CN: studies show no significant evidence that something works, therefore it doesnât work.
Others: Studies donât show conclusively that it doesnât work.
CN: There are tons of studies that donât confirm something doesnât work, itâs a waste of resources to show that. All that matters is if it shows that the treatment does work.
Others: But we canât say conclusively that it doesnât work.
CN: Yes, we can. Nothing works until it can be proven to work. Drinking beer doesnât help with covid and neither does Ivermectin.
Others: You canât proveâŚ
CN: Go fuck yourself