I’m talking about how you build the political movement that allows for the accrual of enough power to make substantive policy changes. I actually don’t find policy wonkery that interesting. I am more interested in public opinion and how you go about changing it.
You guys would be wayyyyyyyyyyy more pissed about real estate if you saw developers/owners’ tax returns. Real estate income is essentially not taxed in this country.
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Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals and businesses own the means of production. The production of goods and services is based on supply and demand in the general market rather than through central planning.
The problem with all this, and I’ve tried to do something about this with my business, is that hardly anyone wants to be a partner or employee-own anything. Most people just want a job.
Markets and lack of central planning are not unique to capitalism.
My man. The wholesale property seizure has already taken place. The titles on all the land in America traces back to violent wholesale property seizure. The capital accumulation of the 19th century was based on financing and insuring the business of slavery. Present day we have wealth inequality at levels that Louis the XVI would have been envious of. The status quo is morally indefensible.
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I didn’t say they were.
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I agree they are not unique to capitalism. And individuals operating their own farm/restaurant/business are not unique to capitalism either.
When we remove those elements from your definition of capitalism, we are left with this:
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In capitalism, do private individuals/businesses own 100% of the means of production? If not, is there a threshold of private ownership below which it ceases to be capitalism?
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micro, you’ve got more experience on that front than I do. All of my business ventures have been sole proprietor type deals.
What if any role would you say that people’s current circumstances have on their attitude? I know that when I’ve been broke, and looking for work, I just wanted to clock in/out and forget about it. But once I wasn’t worried about next months rent, and I had a feel for the organization, then I really was a lot more motivated to want to participate in something more than owner-employee relationship.
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Basically none. I have had business partnerships with people, but those have just been with other not very risk averse people. Two anecdotes have made me give up almost all hope of real cooperative co-owned workplaces being anything more than a niche. One is there was a guy who was working for me for years. We were and are very good friends. You know working relationships are not really like almost like a father — but this is almost almost like that. He started working with me when he was 17 and I was about 40 and I’ve been involved in lots of personal stuff including testifying to help him get custody of his kid. Anyway I offered him a partnership. I even did it on a trial basis. During the trial he made almost twice his regular pay, which was good, and it was a lower profit than average job (I was the sub of a sub). He found the stress of not being sure how much he would make not worth the upside. The other thing is all the stuff that has happened here on Unstuck.
I tried to organize a solar cooperative another time and had 4 people sort of on board, but two of them didn’t have the patience to wait for business and took regular jerbs. If I were ever to actually start a solar cooperative I’d probably have to guarantee people’s salary for a year, pay them all profit above their salary and then tell them salary or ownership? and they’d still probably take salary.
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Are you pessimistic about cooperative efforts in other areas, such as housing, being anything more than a niche?
Oh yeah. And I’ve lived in cooperative housing - one form or another for like 8 years.
I’m not enthusiastic about visions of society that are built around the idea of cooperatives and communes being commonplace because I just don’t think the masses can be induced to embrace that lifestyle. I’d like to see a system where such niches are allowed to exist, but they can’t be the default option and systems tend to be hostile to non-default options.
What makes you feel that way? Sincerely curious. I know you’re speaking figuratively, but I’d like to know more about what you mean.
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No Shade without Colour.
Since the rich actually do eat the poor seems more than fair.
that looks pretty pretty good I haven’t had a beef in a hot young minute