This is never better public policy. The necessary means testing is divisive and expensive. We pay more to sow division among ourselves. Rights are rights for the rich too.
No one deserves to go through that I am so sorry.
Whatās incorrect is jman is not an āEnemy of the peopleā FFGDS. Thatās hyperbole and ridiculous. Heās voting for our side.
And, AGAIN, millions and millions of people feel the same way. If people feel they are going to have a lower standard of care, or lose their existing coverage - it will fail miserably in the court of public opinion (never mind the house and senate, which it will never get through - heās right about that too).
For instance, my biggest issue is the environment. Clearly yours is healthcare. Iām not quite as passionate about healthcare. Itās roughly like me calling you an enemy of the planet if you donāt see 100% eye to eye with me (I would completely eliminate all fossil fuels, outlaw beef, and take us back to the 1500ās if I had my way). Maybe you agree, maybe you donāt. But I know I have an extreme viewpoint, and I canāt imagine trying to enforce it on here in the way you have in this debate.
It isnāt healthy and it isnāt good for this forum.
2 Likes
Universal public healthcare is not an extreme viewpoint. The majority of the civilized world believes it is appropriate and correct.
7 Likes
I agree he isnāt an enemy of the people. I think his posting on this comes across as tone deaf to those of us who have or know someone who have suffered greatly at the hands of the current system. I like jman as a poster and while his take is somewhat rational I completely disagree with it.
3 Likes
Most older black people will find it extremely difficult to vote for a gay white man. or even a gay black man for that matter.
Ugh, Iām not saying that it is or trying to imply that m4a is an extreme viewpoint. Iām saying if someone doesnāt see eye to eye with your viewpoint, it does not really help constructive debate by calling them ridiculous names and accusing them of being no better than a trump supporter. Thatās black and white thinking. And saying āif you donāt support m4a you are an enemy of the peopleā IS an extreme viewpoint.
My point is I hold a viewpoint I know millions would disagree with and I would not try to convince them in the manner you are doing here, especially if they were on the same side as me.
The problem with enemy of the people is the people part as much as the enemy. Just because youāre on the left doesnāt mean you have to be a Stalinist.
Itās not effective propaganda to call someone that but itās literally a truism
There is no people in the sense that that phrase means it and itās a terrible and dangerous way of thinking. When I donāt like Trump using it itās because thatās him being a totalitarian period, not because heās not my totalitarian.
2 Likes
I donāt care whose āsideā he is on, I have less respect for a Jman type than I do for a blue collar Trump voter. The later is getting fucked over hard, and correctly realized that the millions of Jman āprogressivesā you cite wouldnāt spit on them if they were on fire. Any theoretical inconvenience is too much.
The Jmans go out and prove them right.
1 Like
I donāt dislike jman, but he has a lot of attitudes that I do despise, including this Disney s***.
2 Likes
No. If you have any intention of not voting in the face of a trump reelection because your fees got hurt, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
There are no acceptable excuses for such irrational and self harming behavior.
Although this is one of the top 1000 reasons why democrats suck.
I am not even a democrat and will vote for whomever gets the nomination. If wussball Democrats can not do that they should get bent.
This was talked about at length yesterday. Weāre going to have to agree to disagree
1 Like
They donāt only believe universal healthcare is correct, they believe it is a human right.
1 Like
If single payer provided you with access to the exact same doctors, procedures, medical facilities and prescriptions without co-pays or deductibles, what makes your current provider a better option?
2 Likes
I disagree with this. AFAIK no oneās outright stated that they prefer to pay or not pay, and I donāt know about individual employers but organizations that represent employers like the Chamber of Commerce or whoever donāt support Medicare for All and when Republicans pushed decoupling healthcare from employment they didnāt support it either.
Implicitly Iād guess that efficiency minded business people donāt like it, but power dynamics business types do like it because it gives employers another touch point to control over employees. Obamacare put in a provision that employers can withhold portions of employer premiums if employees donāt complete āwellnessā programs and AFAIK no business organization objected to that specific provision to have to micromanage their employeeās health.
1 Like
Good book titled " Extraordinary Care" - multiple chapters outlining terrible outcomes experienced by rich/famous people. Not surprisingly, the rich and famous are smarter than everyone else and they insist on directing their treatment and they find some $$ sucking doc to go along - same as it ever was - theyāve likely added chapters for Michael Jackson and Steve Jobs by now.
MM MD
1 Like
Someone starting an NH thread?
Go Aheadā¦
1 Like