At this point if they can’t get this done the whole system is doomed so they might as well get it over with. As for the people at the bottom the system is making their lives unbearable in good times, so maintaining it for their sake seems like a pretty empty goal.
Trying to keep a gangrenous limb will absolutely kill you. I’m realizing that we already did that and we’re already dead. There’s nothing left but the inevitable series of crises followed by death and decay.
Manchin says the path is to pass infrastructure and then negotiate in good faith. Says right now the progressives arent negotiating in good faith.
That said, seems like a lot of the off the record takes are that Manchin is a pain in the ass but he’s an old hand at this and there’s probably a path forward as he really wants infrastructure passed. Sinema is way more of a wild card, actively involved and asking detailed questions but no one has any idea where she ends up and she doesnt really seem to be too troubled if where she lands is zero bills passed.
People take you seriously the next time. If you can’t walk away it’s not a negotiation it’s pleading. Right now raising discontent with the system belongs in the pro column not the con column.
Yeah see this right here is why the perpetual hostage taking works. Somehow we get this weird attribution where the rescue team who won’t negotiate with terrorists are the bad guys and not the actual hostage takers. If only there was One Simple Trick to show who’s actually culpable.
I guess my problem here is that the “rescue team’s” plan is to go in and shoot the hostage first.
Defaulting may be the only viable plan here, but I can’t see how anyone is hyped for another pointless recession.
Giving in isn’t the answer either. The ball is in the oligarchs court. They can choose to strengthen the system that gives them their wealth and power or they can choose to weaken it. That’s not our call.
The rescue team would pass a clean debt ceiling bill in a second. They aren’t shooting anyone. The progressives agreed to the infrastructure bill on the basis that there would be some systemic reforms. The other side is now trying to renege. Going back on the deal is their choice, not the progressives.
We are out of time on climate change. We either make meaningful changes now or nothing else we do even matters.
Lol, the hostages being shot are more loved by the ones talking them hostage - and deciding to not pay the basic bills isn’t going to lead to the GND.
There arent 50 votes on a meaningful climate change bill as you are envisioning it. I agree progressives probably should shoot down the highway bill as we stand, but if its the climate change provisions or bust this is going to die. Manchin is not voting for a bill that isnt pro fossil fuels and, probably, pro “clean” coal
Then let it die and may the chips fall where they may. It doesn’t matter at all if they can’t negotiate like adults. Manchin needs to ask for a bailout for the fossil fuel oligarchs because their business needs to start shrinking dramatically right now.
I agree as we sit today, but I think it becomes a harder call if there ends up being like a $2.5 trillion dollar bill that hits nearly all of the priorities except climate change because the most likely result of killing both bills is not a climate change friendly Congress. The path to 53 senators or w/e may be a longshot, but its not zero. It gets closer to zero if this Dem Congress/Presidency implodes.
Passing the bill tomorrow as we sit today should be a non starter for a million reasons.
What is the mechanism here? Everything I’ve seen suggests that a systemic shock will be used as an excuse to NOT pass something like the Green New Deal. There will be plenty of politicians taking the line “We can’t possibly do GND now, after this terrible systemic shock, we must focus on fixing the shock”. This is actually a standard misdirection that politicians use to avoid responsibility all the time. Where are the politicians that are going fall into the category “Oh, I didn’t support this trillion dollar government program BEFORE the financial system crashed but AFTER the financial system has crashed and our federal tax revenues have nosedived, well I am all for it now!” There are no such people.
The GOP can be counted on to run the country into the ground when they take over next time. If what it takes to return the country to sanity is another round of fascism, it is what it is.
The game is over dude… the sane people lost. We should have grown a spine sooner obviously. We didn’t rock the boat while it slowly sank… and now it’s sunk.
Or the other side is bluffing and we win now.
This could have been avoided by not taking hostages! The reason we don’t encourage hostage taking is because it can quickly spiral out of control and tons of unintended bad shit can happen. There are no hostages to shoot if there are no hostages taken. Start blaming the hostage takers and only the hostage takers.
The Republicans are already on record for voting against a debt ceiling increase, this happened this week. Now you dont bring it up again unless it’s attached to the 3.5T and when the default tanks the nation you hang it around their necks.
This isnt hard.
Id say theres a high-risk case for that equation being true long-term, but the immediate effect of a default will be a paring back of the existing safety nets combined with an extended recession.
Nothing changes until some very rich people lose a lot of their money.
The only question is how long the machines keep the patient breathing, he’s already dead.
The faster we pull the plug on this, the faster change can actually begin. We have a finite amount of years in this earth. Sooner beats later.
“we lied to you, too fucking bad, eat it and roll over anyway. be a shame of these hostages didn’t have a bridge to drive over to work…”
This is the optimal time to make demands. The supply chains are fucked and the demand for labor is very high as a result. If you pare back the social safety nets employers will simply be forced to make up the difference. It’s going to be a terrible time for low income single parents, but honestly it’s been a terrible time for them for decades.
At some point you just have to rip off the bandaid and stop playing nice. The optimal time for that was 2008 when the banks were facing down insolvency and the rich were terrified, but we punted. We punt this time and it might be another 10-15 years before we see a good opportunity.
The progressives need to shove here. No we don’t have 100% equity and we could lose, but I don’t see a better spot coming anytime soon and we’re down to like 5-6BB.