I assume it’s like a lot of the rules around women’s healthcare - it’s unclear and scary enough to keep the providers from wanting to go anywhere near it.
What happens when the implantation fails and the embryo “dies”?
Just a thought experiment…
Another thought experiment:
Someone should sue saying that the congressional districts are all wrong. I’m assuming that most of the frozen embryos are in big cities.
If the embryos are children, they should be counted in the population.
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so new grift just dropped.
- move to alabama
- freeze some embryos
- claim 50-75 dependents on tax returns and all other possible benefits since they are full humans
- ???
- profit
- move the fuck out of alabama
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Sounds like natural a causes to me. Definitely not murder, as the intent is the exact opposite of that. Maybe some wingnut could spin it into a lesser killing charge.
paging @SweetSummerChild
May I repeat:
Sorry, let me elucidate. The people who ruled on this and the leadership of Alabama are these wingnuts. They WILL use this ruling to call it murder…which is why this will kill IVF. Women aren’t gonna risk getting charged and doctors aren’t gonna want to do it.
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You’re really going to have to finish that thought. I think IVF gives men choices as well, but setting that aside, you have to draw the line between the law and less access to IVF. I think that you were heading in the right direction with your thought experiment, but I’m looking for something concrete. What will actually happen? It’s obviously a dumb and unnecessary law, but that’s not the question.
LFS had a decent hypothesis:
But I’m not sure that’s how it will go down. With abortion, how a provider could get into trouble is a lot more clear.
I just read the Alabama Supreme Court’s verdict on this case and holy crap the Chief Justice’s concurrence would have seemed over the top in The Handmaid’s Tale.
screenshots not consecutive
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I love that he is citing the 2022 constitution as if its some divine and historical document.
i’m just glad someone is attempting to legitimize the age old abortion internet question of; if you’re in a burning building with a tray of embryos and one live crying 3 year old which do you feel morally obligated to save if you can only save 1. and now we know the answer in alabama you better save the tray.
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Sperm are men. Duh. Now eggs….
Providers will stop doing the procedure because they don’t want the hastle of having to store them forever and ever. Store the eggs, maintain the records, find someone to take all of them over for you if/when you leave the practice, etc. And, if intentional destruction is murder, is negligence some lesser form of homicide? How many backup systems do you need in case of a power outage? What is your responsibility if a hurricane is rolling in and might flood your facility? What are the med mal and other insurance premiums going to be when you are taking on this kind of long term liability to so many “unborn lives”?
Now, some of these risks are already inherent in the IVF field but (1) extending the amount of the liability (more eggs and more time) will shift the risk/reward calculation and (2) being open to criminal liability is a game changer. Lots of people who will take financial risks won’t risk jail time.
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And since a big chunk of the IVF market is uppity women who think they want an education and an established, successful career before having children rather than marrying young, popping out kids right away, and staying home like God intended, we need to do what we can to discourage such heretical behavior. That it’s self-consistent with our slut-shaming abortion stance, all the better.
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Lock me up for child abuse.
Doug Jones beating Roy Moore must have just been Alabama’s dead cat bounce.
The problem is, you’re looking at it like a rational, logical person would look at it.
You have to throw all that out of the window and look at it as someone who genuinely believes that a woman’s only job is to be subservient to her man, pop out babies, and take care of the house. Women are never independent beings, nor should they have that agency.
IVF, birth control, abortion, all that gives them agency. See MrWookie’s post.
We’ve already seen doctors who are unclear on what their states’ laws actually say, so they refuse to perform lifesaving procedures until t’s almost too late. Extend that to IVF and the potential legal hassles of providing it become just too much for any practitioner to bear.
Bigoldnit provided some good examples.
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It took 5 women coming forward calling Moore a pedophile creep and a story about him being banned from the mall for cruising for teenage girls for Doug Jones to squeak out a 22,000 vote margin of victory, and even still Jones lost in 6 out of Alabama’s 7 Congressional districts.
Yes, she did. That’s because she actually answered the question.
All of the stuff you wrote is obvious and not something anyone really disagrees with, including me. It also wasn’t really a response to the question that I asked.