Film is already a blend of images and language. Would anyone argue that silent film is a higher art form than “talkies”? Is mime a higher art form than theatre? Genuine questions about the nature of Art which interests me a great deal.
Interesting discussion, but I think it’s starting off with a couple flawed assumptions.
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there is something wrong when the director is telling the audience how to feel. I’d argue that is the entire raison d’être of film. The mediums purpose is to elicit an emotional response from the audience. The narrative, acting, cinematography, lighting, sound, editing and score all serves this purpose. The directors job is to create that emotional response.
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because some films do a poor job of using score you are condemning score in general. There are a lot of bad films and bad score. I’d argue a film like Interstellar was ruined single handedly by a horrific score. But many other examples already cited show how score enhances film.
I also don’t think the comparison to a laugh track is fair. A laugh track never creates an emotional response. It simply marks a time when one is suppose to occur. Good scores never serve this purpose.
This is how I have always felt about music too. I never pay attention to lyrics. To me they are just other sounds that work in the composition. Like you say it could be random gibberish and it wouldn’t diminish my enjoyment of the song.
Agree 100%. So many great songs used very well in movies and they can set the scene or bring you back to the moment.
IIRC somebody you are close to was involved in selecting songs for one of the greatest movie soundtracks ever.
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All I need to say is Jaws and BUD UM.
Anyone who has ever seen that film will have an instantaneous emotional reaction and be brought back to the film. It’s impossible not to see the shark in your mind. Those two notes are a character in that film no less important than the shark itself. It would be a measurably worse film without those two notes.
I don’t want to spoil because too few people have seen this amazing new film but find a way to see Portrait of a Lady on Fire. I’d be curious of your view of its score.
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Winger begs to differ:
Yey I saw sparks fly, from the corner of my eye
When I turned, it was love at first sight
I said please excuse me, I didn’t catch your name
Oh it’d be a shame not to see you againAnd just when I thought she was comin’ to my door
She whispered sweet and brought me to the floor, she saidI’m only seventeen (seventeen)
But I’ll show you love like you’ve never seen
She’s only seventeen (seventeen)
Daddy says she’s too young, but she’s old enough for me
(This thread has turned out to be much more interesting and persuasive than I expected.)
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The shark did it.
Isn’t Winger hair metal?
I think Rush has something to say about bad poetry. Those lyrics ZZ posted a few months back were something else. I believe it was The Trees.
There is a song about Evil Knievel from an '80’s Boston rock band with the line, “when the brains go spilling, the audience is willing.” That might be my favorite bad line ever. (I actually love the song, or did when I was younger. Even though all the lyrics are all super corny.)
Sadly, I don’t remember the artist’s name,but he was a Houston local who toured regionally:
She’s my lover, she’s my friend,
To any position she will bend,
She’s my inflatable doll.
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Well ok, I guess your approach as a musician is somewhat different to that of the composer of the music, whether good metal, punk or Wagner, who tries to use the music to augment the sentiments of the lyrics (which I assume cassette takes as emotional manipulation when applied to film, and I don’t), and your interest is inevitably triggered by the music not lyrics. Both my parents went to music school and would take the same line as you, quite naturally when you have an academic as well as practical interest in a subject or skill.
Im also more emotionally affected by music than the lyrics and I understand where you’re coming from, I think, but it’s not the same place as a composer or director.
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“The snot has caked against my pants, it has turned into crystal” is such an incongruously terrible line that every time I’ve heard it I’ve cursed Arthur Lee for part-ruining a wonderful piece of music.
Add me to the list of people who don’t really care for lyrics. I love the sound of human voice in many songs, but not the dumb crap being said.
Dead Can Dance had a fun solution to this problem by having Lisa Gerrard sing almost all her vocals in either obscure medieval languages or a completely made up one she invented as a kid.
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God knows how many times I’ve listened to Forever Changes, but I just had to Google to find out which Love song it’s from. I also rarely hear lyrics, though I do at least consider it a minor failing.
Also in Seinfeld.
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In the still of the night, I hear the wolf howl, honeyyyyyyy
Sniffin’ around your doooooo-eeeee-ooooor
All-time classic.
Like, just, what?
It’s tough to tell who in here is being serious and who’s 'avin a laff. So many anemic counterarguments that’s it’s difficult to know where to start.
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The things you learn here.
It’s unusual to find people strong in both composition and lyrics (hence so many songwriting partnerships I guess), but having classical texts or Goethe to fall back onto must be pretty handy. I have a musician friend (who’s never quite made it) who felt he’d gone a little stale lyrically, so released a CD featuring Blake’s poetry set to his music (sensibly avoiding Jerusalem).
With your background I’m surprised you haven’t joined the throng in a walrus yet.