Interesting take from someone who wants to hold off on UBI. Unless I’m mistaking you for another poster, then I feel like an asshole.
Possibly me. I think there should be more implementation in stages and study of the effects. I’d put free health care as a higher priority. That’s also more realistic. And even that isn’t going to happen.
Also I think it’s hardly true that what I posted there means I logically must support UBI.
So the white people are going to be at least somewhat well off and the black people are black. That’s great. Good job Mizzou.
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If I had an Asian noodle food truck on Capital Hill, I’d temporarily rebrand it as Quid Pro Pho.
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Damn.
Everything around the valley was on fire yesterday. The air was very bad.
Oh, that’s wildfire. I seriously first thought I was looking at an active volcano.
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A lot of things can be not wrong but callously phrased.
The main takeaway that I had was mb was trying to possibly enlighten him to a different pov and he immediately hand waved it off defensively and gave a conservative like: get over it, you know what I mean.
Then followed it up with a: you don’t even believe this. You just want to virtue signal.
Except that there’s not really a good argument for saying that capitalism didn’t uplift those people. It clearly did. At the expense of working class people in developed countries obviously, but it did uplift them.
They were crazy town third world poor for all of human history before capitalism came along. For that matter so were all of our ancestors before 1800. There’s plenty to criticize about capitalism but there’s obviously a reason why the human race did capitalism for the last 200-300 years. Whether it has run it’s course is a valid question, but I feel like there’s a lot of knee jerk hostility to a system that we all actually owe a lot to.
To be clear I think climate change is more the result of government corruption than capitalism. Capitalism works fine when governments don’t let capitalists externalize costs like pollution/health effects/etc and sets reasonable rules. The US government and to a lesser extent in the rest of the world have been doing a piss poor job for the last 50 years… and that’s created where we are today more than capitalists have. Capitalists buy and sell what they can, that’s literally their job. They’ve been doing their job just fine. It’s government officials who haven’t been.
I don’t see how that follows when this was the argument:
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Poor people definitely aren’t doing the lifting, except that suddenly the market rate for their labor explodes upward because they can produce something people in richer countries will pay more money for.
Working in a sweat shop seems bad until you try true subsistence low tech farming. And after a generation or two your kids get out of the sweat shop and do something a bit better. Usually after the child labor laws get passed (but they always do because people work in sweat shops primarily so their kids won’t have to). The whole thing is a progression and it’s called capitalism. A lot of people ITT seem to think that this progression is a bad thing and the people going through it are victims. I just think that the serfs who make up most of our DNA had it meaningfully worse and that capitalism has to be judged based on what it replaces not on what we aspire to.
Obviously we’re approaching a post capitalism society in the developed world and soon enough the rest of the formerly developing world will be too. They are going through stuff that the developed world spent a century plus figuring out in a decade or two. That doesn’t make capitalism inherently evil like a lot of people seem to think it is.
I’m also not one of those people who knee jerk freaks out about communism or socialism. I think the failure of communism/socialism in the 20th century mostly happened because they went there before it was time to do so. The Scandinavian countries basically made the switch to a more enlightened form of capitalism before the rest of us, and we’ll soon be moving to their model. What comes after that I don’t know and probably won’t live to see.
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It’s tone deaf.
We all get what you’re saying. But telling the guy waking up at 4am to go dig a ditch that he’s being uplifted by his boss is offensive. They’re literally the ones doing the lifting.
Saying that serfs had it worse than modern serfs is no different from saying well, actually the slaves didn’t have it so bad compared to beforehand. Capitalism even lifted them up, there were freed ones dontchaknow.
Holy shit.
Literally nobody is saying that. Nobody. I’d go further and say nobody has ever said that in the history of the world.
Saying social and political change has helped poor people is not saying their work is meaningless in their success. That might be the most absurd straw man ever.
No one infantilizes the workers? Really?
Yeah, there really is, but it’s a long and complicated subject. It’s mostly socialism that raised standards of living across the population. Capitalism got going in the 16th century. It was socialism that got going at the very end of the 19th.
That’s exactly what I said. 
Jesus you are not even trying to debate in good faith.
Fuck his boss. He’s not uplifting anyone anymore than the poor person is. The system is uplifting both of them but at very different speeds. At first it’s a lucky few (the boss) and then the rest get uplifted as they demand more of the spoils of the overall system.
All of this has happened hundreds of times now. What blows my mind is that there are still people who think the people at the top are villains/heroes and the people at the bottom are victims/charity cases. None of these descriptions are remotely accurate.
I’ve noticed that it’s now a much bigger pain in the ass to “mark all as read” in my inbox. No idea why they’d move around the interface so much for seemingly no reason.