Fall LC thread

I can see someone for whom the main appeal was the prankishness and epater-les-bourgeoisie aging into someone who likes that Trump triggers the libs.

There is that possibility, sure.

Also 60s Yippies like Jerry Rubin becoming yuppy 80s capitalists probably made a lot of former radicals feel validated in their own move rightwards.

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I never have and never will trust anarchists. Anarchism is just libertarianism with a different emotional valence.

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You and microbet should talk.

No one will ever trust lawyers.

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Anarchism is good in principle imo, but I worry about its possible subversion by charismatic entryists with their own agendas.

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There’s no doubt at all in my mind that capitalism ruins people’s souls to such an extent that the most afflicted are even unaware of it.

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As opposed to what other ideology? A charismatic leader is antithetical to anarchism. That doesn’t mean it can’t happen, but it’s less likely and it’s why leaderlessness is a feature, not a bug, in Occupy, BLM and other anarchistic movements.

I have yet to be convinced that anarchism is humanly possible, but if you’re gonna reach for something unachievable it’s a pretty good choice. I see it not as an actual goal to be reached, but as a tactic for resisting oppression.

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I’m fundamentally against isms so I can’t defend any of them.

It wouldn’t take a charismatic leader as such, just someone convincing with the right connections in the right place at the right time etc.

I do believe that humans are intrinsically good at heart (bar a very small minority), which is why anarchism can work in principle; but without the safeguards that might prevent it from being truly anarchist (which might turn it into a form of socialism) its long-term survival seems precarious to me.

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That and having reasonable goals. It’s something that can be practiced in various degrees in different places.

I don’t think humans are intrinsically anything except human. Even the best of us are capable of evil.

Imo the fundamental difference between left and right anarchism (or libertarianism) is that left-anarchists believe people are generally good and right-anarchists (American libertarians/ACists/preppers/etc) think people are generally bad.

I don’t really know what evil means, but being capable of a bad act doesn’t make someone a bad person in my book.

It’s a spectrum, but I think typically people fall way too far on the side of thinking that people are out to get each other and only act decently because they think they’ll get in trouble if they do something terrible. People aren’t perfect and sure lot of people will take advantage of something if they don’t think it causes anyone too much harm (this is why everyone is cool spewing their little contribution of CO2 into the atmosphere - their little bit doesn’t really hurt anyone much), but people still generally want to be good.

I agree with that. Certainly spending a formative year in a small community in West Africa showed me that people are generally kind and supportive away from the sort of nonsense that we are led to believe is necessary for happiness in the West.

There’s an aspect to wanting to see it all burn that runs across both. But mainly this guy and I were best buddies from about 15 to 25 - good enough friends that he can admit to me “Yeah, i’m kinda racist”. Probably what you’d get out of 99% of Trump fans if you know them well enough.

The younger micro-daughter gave an update that’s not good on her boyfriend’s friend. She was stabbed 8 times. All the people who died were close friends of hers. One of the people who died, did so saving her. She’s still in IC - I don’t really know the prognosis, I hope it’s ok.

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At least he’s honest enough to admit it. People I work make blatantly racist comments, then deny they are even slightly racist, then when it’s shown how their comments are racist according to internationally accepted definitions of racism say “Well I’m entitled to my opinions”.

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I think our society tells us in a lot of ways to not be good. Helping people is not our responsibility. Call the police. The government should help these poor people. Government needs to force people to be environmentally responsible. IMO, people who were not raised this way would be much more likely to be like that guy who grabbed the narwhal tusk.