DIDNT WATCH LOL
I believe Thomas was first off the blocks today.
All those pelosi fans were carrying trump flags and demanding trump be installed as president as part of a frame-up. Trump had nothing to do with it!
It was an insurrection. He admit it!
Guess itâs gonna be up to voters to decide if they want to elect an insurrectionist
For those of us who may have failed to pay full attention, this Elie Mystal thread is pretty good.
Summary
Here we go. Trump v. Anderson live tweet thread:
Jonathan Mitchell out here making the claim that the President is not an officer of the united states.
Thomas wants to talk about whether S-3 is âself executing.â The conservative argument here is that Congress has to pass a law implementing section 3, as opposed to it just being a thing.
Mitchell is saying that Trump should be able to run even if he canât hold the office, because Congress can remove the insurrectionists disability (by 2/3rds of a vote) after he wins if they want to.
Roberts seems skeptical. Sotomayor is pointing out that, much as Thomas might want to make it a thing, trying to make the 14th A non-self executing makes no sense. Mitchell was forced to agree with her on that point.
Kagan: âyouâre not making a constitutional argument, youâre making a statutory pre-emption argument⌠is that right?â
So, one of the fun things about the Trump argument is that itâs actually not grounded in constitutional law.
Barret joined in. Mitchell had to admit that the constitutional arguments donât get him to where he wants to go, or keep Trump on the ballot.
Alito to the rescue, restating Mitchellâs argument for him since he was flailing.
Sotomayor brings up the Gorsuch case, where Gorsuch excluded a person for not being a natural born citizen.
Mitchell says thatâs different because Congress cannot remove the disability.
Jackson is having none of it. âWhy does the fact that you can be excused from the category makes you not in the category.â
Mitchell says that Congressâs ability to remove the insurrection disability as âsomething akin to a pardon powerâ⌠I donât see how that helps him. Like⌠even Alito doesnât seem to see how that helps him.
So, whatâs happening here is what happened in the briefs. Mitchellâs case is, shockingly weak. And the conservatives are struggling to see how his arguments get them where they want to go.
We are now into what Kagan called âthe officer stuff.â This is probably what the case is going to turn on, and thatâs said because itâs the dumbest thing.
I canât tell is Jackson was buying the officer stuff or is baiting Mitchell to make a coherent argument about the officer stuff.
Itâs hard to tell because Mitchell is doing so poorly right now.
Gorsuch: Much hinges on your distinction between office, and officer. What evidence do you have that two terms so closely related should be given such different weight?
Gorsuch: Is there anything in the original history, drafting, that would show why that distinction should have such profound weight?
Mitchell: âNot reallyâ
Me: [Audible laughs]
Not gonna lie: this is harder for me to follow than most because Mitchell is doing so bad that when the justices are going at him I canât tell if itâs because they agree, disagree, or are literally just asking him âWHAT IN THE GODDAMN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, HOMIE??â
Kagan: given that you donât have a lot of evidence that the founding generation that they thought a lot about officer versus offices, perhaps we should ask why they would have made such a thing?
Mitchell: I donât have a good reason.
This is amazing-bad. :)
This whole thing is like:
Court: Why donât you make this argument?|
Mitchell: Cause itâs not good for us.
Court: Do you have any evidence for this?
Mitchell: Not really.
Kavanaugh has so far been the closest to âwhy does Colorado get to call him an insurrectionist???â
Barrett finally asks the due process question, which i thought would be a bigger deal. The argument that Trump didnât have due process before being declared an insurrectionists.
Mitchell: âwinning on due process really doesnât do as much for our client as other argumentsâ
Just. wow.
Okay folks, WARNING⌠KBJ Is totally buying this officer shit. Jesus effing Christ.
Please God let this NOT be fucking happening right now.
Jason Murray up now, representing the people trying to get Trump off the ballot. We should learn more about where the justices are leaning from this part, I think, just because he wonât be as scattered as Mitchell was.
Thomas arguing that states donât disqualify candidates, heâs saying that only the federal government can exclude national candidates.
Roberts now chiming in: âWhole point of 14th A was to restrict state power.â âŚâWouldnât it be the last place youâd look to, the states, to enforce the presidential election process?â
For those playing along at home, Thomas, and Roberts, who think the states have the right to prevent pregnant people from receiving health care and make it harder for poor people and Blacks to vote⌠suddenly think that the states maybe donât have a lot of power after all.
Now Kavanaugh chiming in. Same song.
Folks, this is going to be the holding. Section 3 is self executing but states DONâT have the power to enforce section 3 for⌠reasons.
Now Kagan joining: âWhy does one state get to decide who gets to be president of the United States?â These seem to be national issues.
Barrett: If we affirmed and we said he was ineligible to be president, other states would probably follow. And you say we have to review the colorado record⌠and it just doesnât seem like a stateâs call.
Me [whispering]: âNow watch the strength of Chancellor Valorum fail.â
Now Gorsuch is saying that the disability can be removed, so the stateâs not allowed to enforce the 14th A.
This is the point that Mitchell was trying to make but very poorly. But, against a competent lawyer, itâs easier for Gorsuch to tip his hand.
Roberts: what do you do with the plain consequences of this decision? If Colorado is upheld⌠a goodly number of states will say âwhoever the Democratic candidate is, youâre off the ballotâ
Ah yes, Republicans acting in bad faith is what the law is really about.
Roberts now worrying about all the candidates who might commit insurrection.
âOther states may have different views about what constitutes an insurrection. And weâd have to develop rules about what constitutes insurrection.â
Murray: YES!
Me: ITâS KIND OF PART OF YOUR JOB
Kavanaugh has evidently read one case and itâs the only thing he can think about. Itâs, like his whole personality now.
Alito, who should know, is now talking about other bad faith things that Republicans might do.
I really hate that Republicans acting like assholes is used as A REASON for Republicans on the Court to ignore the law. Itâs circular and maddening.
If I was @Redistrict Iâd be at the âIâve seen enoughâ phase. Trump wins 9-0.
But Iâll stay here just to make fun of these people for another hour and a half.
@Redistrict Gorsuch is spinning out something about how a sitting president who committed insurrection should still be able to give orders I have no idea how this has anything to do with anything, and neither does Murray. But Gorsuch is being pissy so we all have to sit here till heâs done
@Redistrict Jackson is worried about the lack of uniformity, with different states saying different candidates are ineligible. She doesnât think the framers would have designed such a thing.
Sheâs gone, folks. I suppose⌠Sotomayor could still be holding out but⌠this is done.
@Redistrict Sorry folks, Alito is asking a hypothetical and I think itâs not that different from what Kagan and Jackson have been asking, but heâs doing it in such an asshole way I canât be bothered to translate it from Mordor to English.
@Redistrict Essentially, I think heâs arguing that Trump isnât an insurrectionist. But, like, whatever, itâs not really what the case is turning on.
@Redistrict If I were in the mood to be a really curmudgeon, this might be where I point out that Merrick Garland/Jack Smith not charging Trump with insurrection or treason probably made this whole attempt DOA. But, thatâs milk that was spilled a long time ago.
@Redistrict Kagan and Jackson have done so much of a better job making Trumpâs case than Trumpâs lawyer Jonathan Mitchell. Once again: women >> Texas assholes who take away abortion rights.
@Redistrict Murray: âSome states may allow insurrectionists to be on the ballot⌠thatâs just a function of the stateâs power to govern their own elections.â
Yeah, boss, thatâs exactly what Kagan and Jackson are worried about.
@Redistrict Should I order a Bloody Mary or a Mimosa from room service?
@Redistrict Kav now bringing up the due process argument. Only the second mention of it so far. They really donât give a crap about it.
@Redistrict Kavanaugh now directly on about Trump hasnât been charged with insurrection. And heâs pretty much saying that if he had been, and he was convicted, heâd be off the ballot.
So⌠[deep fucking sigh] I do in fact agree with Kavanaugh about that.
@Redistrict Kav âWhat about the idea that we should think about democracy?â
First of all, what a dumb way to phrase this question.
Second: Kavâs whole bit here is âI read the WSJ while the other justices were talking and came up with some more questionsâ
@Redistrict Jacksonâs main point is that section 3 was trying to stop âthe south from rising againâ in their local and senate elections, but not about presidential elections.
Again, KBJ is all in on this âPresident is not an officerâ thing. Big win for this conservatives here.
@Redistrict I really think this is the weakest argument available, and sheâs all for it. Iâm so sad. âPresident is not the list.â
SO THE FUCK WHAT? Jeff Davis is clearly covered.
@Redistrict Colorado solicitor general arguing now.
If anything, all Iâm listening for now is how theyâre going to force Trump back on the Maine ballot, as well as Colorado.
@Redistrict Alito driving at this now
@Redistrict WHERE WAS ALL THIS SKEPTICISM ABOUT STATEâS POWER TO MAKE ELECTORAL RULES THAT ARE NOT UNIFORM WITH OTHER STATES WHEN STATES MAKE VOTER ID LAWS AND CUT OFF EARLY VOTING YOU HYPOCRITICAL JERKS??
@Redistrict Five stages of Elie grief
- Cynicism
- Anger
- Alcoholism
- FURIOUS ANGER
- Crushing depression.
Entering stage four pretty hard here.
@Redistrict Kagan now saying that 14th A is completely different from 22nd A (which bars President from seeking a third term).
@Redistrict Mitchell back for final rebuttal. When I say oral arguments donât matter, itâs because of things like this: Mitchell was so bad the justices had to make up arguments for him. But him being bad has no effect on the final ruling because the justices made up their minds weeks ago.
@Redistrict The case is submitted. I think itâs 9-0 Trump on the ballot. Iâm going to scream into the void and then write.
Thank you all for joining me on yet another journey of âHow Democracies Dieâ that took an unexpected detour into âWhy Democrats Failâ
I donât get it tbh, seems like states preventing accused âinsurrectionistsâ from election eligibility is a bad thing. Is everyone rooting for this because Trump?
There is no air quotes here. He did the thing on live tv
Hey, thats what I said
You could have just said yes, youâre rooting for this because Trump.
This isnât going to stop fascists. Itâs just going to be used as ammunition against leftists, because socialism or communism will = insurrection/sedition (as it has in the past).
Jackson with an absolute fail
Also need to establish what the due process is for determining an insurrection has taken place.
Yeah, Im sorry, but just because cucklord Garland wouldnt charge him with insurrection doesnt mean it didnt happen. The states arenât making up what we saw willy-nilly. They have evidence.
Fortunately, the Supreme Court need not look far for answers to these questions. They can simply look across the street at the Capitol, where majorities of both chambers of Congress already found that January 6 was an insurrection and that Trump not only engaged in it but âincitedâ it.
This may come as a shock. When, one might ask, did Congress ever hold such votes?
Those votes came in the second impeachment of Trump, in January and February of 2021, in which majorities of both the House and the Senate backed an article of impeachment against Trump for âincitement of insurrection.â
LOL
Basically sums up how the argument went, imo.
The immunity argument is out the window for today.
https://x.com/TrumpDailyPosts/status/1755739333494255684?s=20