Democratic Primaries 2020 - Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Politics & News
7510

Again, my concern is Bernie supporters dragging other candidates consistently or questioning their motivation, which is part of the reason I didn’t read this thread for about a month. Hell, I’ve always liked Bernie and certainly support him over Biden (who I don’t think is inherently bad, but deeply flawed). I also think Bernie is more electable than Biden, or anyone elsen (though I’m not confident in this conclusion).

It’s interesting how the liberals in many countries, like Canada and the UK, cleave off into a left and a center left party, which often undermines their common goals. However, this is a pretty significant divide, in that the left tends to want to fundamentally alter the system whereas many liberals want reform. In the US, both left of center groups are stuck in the same car together and, ideally, should work for a common purpose. That’s difficult, however, during a winner take all primary.

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7511

You would think that law bros who have been wrong about basically everything over the last few years would lose some of their smug elitism, but I guess not.

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7512

Fuck that, you can tell me the supporters of other D politicians want what we want, but I am 100% convinced that the D politicians themselves do not. They care about money and power, and if they happen to do some good things along the way, well that’s nice.

Like the wise AOC said, this is about Money vs. People. 95% of Ds, including Biden, Pete, Klobuchar, Pelosi, Beto, etc. are too cowardly/craven to side with the People.

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7513

You’re 100% correct about the politicians. I’m just saying that everyone telling everyone else to fuck off may not be the best way to get the voters who might not yet see this reality to be open to a new perspective. Maybe I’m wrong, in which case everyone can fuck the fuck right off.

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7514

I’m mentally preparing myself now for the inevitability of the Biden “win” here. Even if Bernie ends up with more votes or more delegates, unless it’s a blowout the media is going to talk endlessly about how Biden has momentum, is unifying the party, etc etc. This feels like being a Red Sox fan pre 2004 - you don’t know how it’s gonna happen, you just in your gut that things are not going to go well.

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7515

It was rhetorical.

I’ve said before, maybe a half dozen times over the years, that American Liberalism is supposed to be the most left of all the liberalisms the world over, past and present. That’s not meant as a purity test, it’s strictly semantics. It’s just how the etymology shook out over the years. There’s not supposed to be this great divide between liberalism, even Third Way, and progressivism. Perhaps you could employ a ‘pragmatism metric’ and say pre-campaign Liz is liberal and Bernie is progressive, or something similar.

Now, the point is that liberals know this, so they pay lip-service to the broad ideas, that social justice requires economic justice, that capitalism should as be ethical as possible, that FDR wasn’t a fringe lunatic, etc. I mean, the audacity of hope and change, right? In practice though, not so much, but they’ve never had their bluff called. Even Obama showing that yeah, um, maybe it was audacious to have hope, still left enough plausible deniability. Even including Bernie in 2016, there’s never been a hand strong enough to call the bluff, until now. This is it. The curtain is pulled all the way back.

Obviously, we’re not naive spring chickens. Even the least jaded and cynical could easily, trivially say that various people, most people, have been filled with various amounts of shit for quite awhile. What’s shocking now is being conclusively shown that so many people are so full of shit. Bernie’s movement called the bluff and the contrast is fucking stark and glaring.

So, maybe it’s not ratfucking. Maybe it’s something orders of magnitude worse and it needs a new word. Regardless, there are people dealing with being told that they were thoroughly lied to their entire lives and I think that would make anybody, at least temporarily, unhinged.

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7516

The thing is my dude we absolutely do not all want more or less the same outcomes.

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7517

Simplicitus is good people.

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7518

Thing is that it’s gonna work.

Bernie must run third party. The only difference between a Biden and Trump presidency is that Biden will be better at hiding his fuck ups.

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7519

On that note, one of my favorite songs ever:

it’s been too hard living but I’m afraid to die
because I don’t know what’s up there beyond the sky
it’s been a long, a long time coming
but I know
a change is gonna come

7520

The one thing that people underrate about Biden is the experience and contacts he has in government. All of the US governments departments have been gutted and the skilled workers aren’t there anymore.
Radical change has happened, going back to 2016 would be radical change for the good. Sanders doesn’t have the contacts to be able to rebuild the government and I doubt he has the ability to pass legit change either.

Biden may be worse than Sanders in a lot of ways, and less electable, but he would still be better than 95% of the population at governing and he may be more effective over 4 years than Sanders too in at least restoring the state department, ethics oversight, education department, etc

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7521

You can complain about whatever you want, babe

7522

Wtf is this garbage, Biden cannot speak in coherent sentences

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7523

But that’s kinda the thing. The state department will go back to being an arm of imperialism. Ethics oversight will continue to ignore powerful officials. The department of education will continue to sell out to capitalists at the expense of poor communities. These are not good outcomes–they put us right back where we started.

Bernie can tap into the same network of people, but his goals actually seem to be aligned with the people and promoting human rights.

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7524

The remaining debates are going to be incredible. Joe will sundown for two hours straight and will be declared the unanimous winner. Just the facts, fat

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7525

If Biden wins they should hold the first debate in a nursing home and give the candidates an applesauce break.

7526

Next Dem debate is in Phoenix and hosted by the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. Should play favorably to Bernie I would think.

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7527

neither can Trump, still has produced a lot of radical change

7528

I mean, I was making the same point. The people you are defending here are the only people who have actually said they are going to vote for Trump over a Democrat, so I think you’re directing your condescension at the wrong people.

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7529

I like the analogy except we know how it’s going to happen. Whoever wins between Bernie and Biden is going to lose the support of a huge chunk of the other’s supporters in the general, proving that “vote blue no matter who” was never anything more than meaningless jingoism. We will all be in the election night thread pretending we didn’t see it coming all along.

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