Saying that Biden basically wants to maintain Obamacare seems like the easiest thing. He obviously would like to improve it while protecting it and his history shows a willingness to work with Republicans. The question is whether Republicans are willing to work with him or if they just want to repeal it. Remind her that they are trying to use the courts to challenge Obamacare and ACB’s confirmation is a step towards success for them.
Since she used the term “illegals” when talking about immigration, it is possible that using liberal language such as “undocumented” will hamper your attempts to talk to her.
I’d respect her views on abortion and not try to change her mind on that.
Overall, I’d suggest understanding her framing and create a narrative for Joe Biden that conflicts as little as possible with that framing, even if it means you are trying to get her to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Policy is overrated. You need to get her to believe that Biden’s worldview is closer to her than Trump’s.
It sounds like she wants compromises. You should be showing her how Democrats are more willing to compromise, while priming her to expect Republicans to reject any proffered olive branch. Tell her that you disagree with Biden on some issues, but at his heart he is a decent and fair man who would listen to Republicans if they negotiated in good faith, but you have doubts that Republicans will ever do that, based on past history.
I think this would work very well if you offer clear frames for each point like this.
Okay, let’s talk about policy: healthcare, abortion, etc.
Okay, let’s talk about the character/morality of the person.
Okay, let’s talk about what they’ve accomplished lifetime, good and bad.
Okay, let’s talk about what specifically are reasonable expectations for either administration.
If you make a persuasive point in one category, sit with that common ground for a second. Then transition to the next category.
One thing you want to be careful about is not to center any of this so that it calls the person’s IDENTITY into question or conflict. People will react defensively in that situation even if they agree with you.
although I’d suggest finding a source other than PP for those numbers.
Additionally the best way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies through sexual education and access to contraceptives which are supported by Dems and opposed by Reps.
What won’t prevent abortions is criminalizing them. This will only restrict somewhat safe abortions to rich women and force poor women into back alleys.
Abortion “on demand” means abortion for any reason at any time. The majority of Americans want abortion to be legal in some but not all circumstances. They think abortion should be legal if the health of the mother is involved. They generally don’t think it should be illegal if the woman feels she cannot afford to raise a child or to select the sex of the baby.
A big part of this that no one ever understands is that an abortion is a pretty drastic and horrible experience. There’s not a lot of people just out getting them for frivolous or irresponsible reasons.
I once helped someone through their abortion through pill and it was like a 2 day ordeal that made her feel like she was dying. She had hormonal problems for months and months afterward. It’s not a walk in the park. Then there’s sometimes lasting psychological issues that stem from the experience.
I don’t know if this is a winning argument, but depending on how old she is, ask if she wants to collect Social Security some day. If she’s young, she ain’t getting it without immigration.
That’s a good point, and could be incorporated into a larger perspective of the efficacy of social programs vs let the free market decide if you eat dog food or not when you retire.
I really appreciate everyone’s input.
A little more insight into how this came about. My friend and I have been tagteaming ~8 of his conservative relatives on a group text. They don’t know that I’m participating. Basically, my buddy sends me their side of the conversation, and I hammer out a couple/few paragraphs of rebuttal that he incorporates into his responses.
Like many people on UP, I’m able to connect dots and bring up points that aren’t necessarily top-of-mind for my friend who doesn’t pay as much attention to history and current events, but knows that Trumpism=danger to humanity. Which is why when she texted him she said “I am asking you this because I perceive you as being very intelligent and more thoughtful than you let on. (I mean that it a good way…lol!)”. She thinks he’s intelligent and thoughtful now because he was copy/pasting my stuff! lmao. I’m gonna give him shit about that for a while. He’s a good dude, but just about everyone’s first impression of him is that he’s an arrogant self-absorbed douche bag.
I’m going copy and paste some post I saw on abortion from reddit. Not like this would change a cult members mind
The Democrats are a lot more anti-abortion than the Republicans.
Democrats more often support comprehensive sex ed, rather than abstinence-only sex ed, which leads to more unplanned pregnancies and more abortion.
Democrats far more often support measures to expand access to birth control, which Republicans constantly oppose and try to repeal. More access to birth control = fewer unplanned pregnancies, and few abortions.
Democrats support expanding health care to the working poor, working people who make too much for old Medicaid, but not enough to afford private insurance, or who have pre-existing conditions. More access to health care = better care for moms & babies, and no bankruptcy when uninsured are faced with hospital costs = better care = fewer people who would choose abortion.
Democrats support expanding employer protections and better wages. A woman who makes more money and isn’t facing the possibility of being fired for being pregnant or wanting to be with her newborn baby is more likely to say "I can do this, I have the support I need, and less likely to choose abortion.
If you want to eliminate abortion, Vote Democrat.
The Republican agenda is just “take over the courts and ban abortion from a legal standpoint”, but this just results in more unsafe illegal abortions. Isn’t this the same party that always says “If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns.”?
If there is a more appropriate existing thread, I’m not sure which it would be.
I feel for you. My parents are early 70’s and it’s basically impossible to combat all of the misinformation that they are seeing on TV or whatever internet rabbit holes they fall down. They’ve been groomed from birth to fall for reactionary propaganda.
Example: my dad emailed me some 4k word quillette article and wanted to talk with me about it. It was written by some right-wing zionist who was making the claim that American media, corporations and educational institutions are being overrun by Marxists, and Trumpism is defending us against that boogeyman. Of course the author didn’t identify any Marxist person by name, and the only media company that he cited as being overrun by Marxist was known paragon of communism: The NY Times. My dad also couldn’t name a single person or American company that was Marxist. I spent an hour on the phone with him talking about just that article. Maybe I made a dent, but I’d wager my dad is voting Trump in part to stop the Marxism and Atheism from ruining the world.
Sometimes I wish I had no ethics and could just grift evangelical christian boomers.
Getting a little feed up with completely ignorant non political yet self assured and smug trump/Republican voters at work…give me a knowledgeable rep any day at least they know what they are voting for.
Me: ACB is going to mess up healthcare and abortion and worker rights along with a bunch of other stuff for a long time.
Them: Lol no she is not.
From the person who could not name another justice and supports health care for all. The person who is in a public union which the Janus act is killing. They don’t even know the polices of the people they support. And do it with complete confidence and arrogance.
If trump wins I’m going to need a week off work so I don’t get into any fights because my fuse is so short. Think I need to start smoking a lot of pot again…oh fuck…
