I think the “how does Covid end?” conversation is divisive because I think there are two reasonable viewpoints regarding how it should be handled at this point. The first is that as soon as the vaccine is widely available (which it largely is now even in non-1st world countries) that is roughly as good as it will get and so we need to get back to normal with some probably minor precautions/inconveniences. The second is that vaccines alone won’t be enough to end Covid (especially with 10-50% non-compliance depending on where we are talking about) and so we need to continue harsh measures to get Covid to 0 such as more lockdowns/mask requirements/no sports or concerts/no international or domestic travel/etc.
I thought alex’s posts the last few days were interesting because I do think the benefit/value of resuming normal life (and on the flipside the cost of continuing the harshest Covid restrictions) is actually quite high and dramatically underdiscussed here. We are closing in on being two years into the pandemic which is a very long time. Probably a lot of people, including some of us, have been irreparably damaged by various aspects of the pandemic. Personally I went from being a very social person who only moderately hated humans to basically sitting around my house drinking for most of the last 2 years and hating everyone. That happening on a grand scale where everyone’s animosity towards each other has ramped up for one reason or another is really kind of a terrifying thought.
Now that being said I totally agree that vaccines alone will not end the pandemic so I don’t really know what the solution is here. It’s obvious society is going back to normal regardless of what we all think though and as a society we will accept increased health risks and death to get there.
I also think the idea of completely eliminating an airborne virus that is as contagious as Covid is basically impossible. In other words no amount of mitigation will get things to absolute zero. And so what you see happen is things get better with mitigation strategies but people can’t or aren’t willing to keep those up forever and so their long term benefit is really dubious in a way. Maybe you keep the vulnerable people alive a couple more weeks or months but if Covid can’t be eliminated then it is going to run it’s course with those people as bad as that sucks.
I also find it interesting that we almost certainly will hit worst case death estimates for Covid (1-2m) in the United States and people largely don’t care. They were terrified by it at the beginning but living it is something far more boring and largely no one cares that 1,000 Americans are dying from Covid every day.
But that’s the end game, isn’t it? If immunity wanes in the 6 mo - 1 yr time frame, then all the people who refuse to get vaccinated will keep getting it and spreading it annually, and some of them will die. The way out of that cycle is a variant more contagious but less deadly than delta, and that’s not guaranteed to ever be a thing.
Somewhat naively, I associate the antivaxxer movement (or at least the American conservative antivaxxer movement) with Trumpy deplorables that don’t want to travel to shithole countries anyway. Why visit Italy when you’ve got Olive Garden right here in Ohio? Just doesn’t make sense.
All 3 kids got vaxxed today. So apparently adult vaccine comes in vials of 30mcg/0.3mL, and kids vaccine comes in 10mcg/0.2mL. Our kids were given 0.2mL out of an adult vial for 20mcg. Initially they told me the kids got the correct 20mcg dose. When I informed them that I believed 10mcg was the correct dose, they double checked and indeed confirmed my kids got double dosed. I’ll probably keep this mostly quiet around people who may already be vaccine hesitant, but if you have younger kids getting vaxxed, it might not hurt to make sure it’s done right.
It sounds like there are already several mixups like this happening all over the country, mostly with kids getting full adult doses. Good job guys.
The first is that as soon as the vaccine is widely available (which it largely is now even in non-1st world countries) that is roughly as good as it will get and so we need to get back to normal with some probably minor precautions/inconveniences.
This is basically USA now isnt it? I dont disagree that this is how this “ends”, but just have a hard time squaring “ends” with “kills 300,000-500,000 people a year with all the expected inequities embedded + whatever long COVID is”.
I also have real concerns with what this “ending” means for the healthcare system, which you probably know better than anyone.
Nope, that’s how the mistake got made. Kids vials are lower concentration. 10mcg/0.2mL. So to dose a kid you give 0.2mL of that concentration for 10mcg. They drew 0.2mL out of an adult vial with a concentration of 30mcg/0.3mL, meaning our kids got 20mcg.
Yeah, the question is whether this booster is the third dose in a three dose vaccine (fingers crossed), or the next in a series of shots needed every 3-12 months or whatever.
in USA, the problem is that the uptake for the booster is not going to get anywhere close to where we need it to be without different public policy. So far the public policy direction is more in the “wen endmandates?” direction than the firmer mandate direction, so some work to do on our vax only approach here.
Ya I completely agree with all this. If people weren’t willing to sacrifice so far or even get vaccinated after 800k dead what are another few hundred thousand a year going to motivate people to do though? I admit it is grim both in general and for health care workers. My partner has her last 3 shifts this week and then is done for at least a several month break. She isn’t alone either.
Is there really anyone here saying they don’t care about taking precautions right now? I think debating what the appropriate level of precautions are for the next likely 5-10 years of Covid permanence is appropriate and not some slam dunk answer either.
Everyone here is masking right? Everyone here is vaxed right? So basically everyone here is taking precautions and ones greatly exceeding the average American just by doing that.
Ok, what do you propose I as an individual do about it? That’s the disconnect here. As a society we have already given up on the types of Covid measures you advocate for and no amount of wishing for it will change it. You are allowing your family to travel across borders to visit. Your kids are in school. You are vaccinated. You wear masks. I don’t really think your precautions are much different from mine based on all that. And yet there seems to be this idea that people in this thread are being totally irresponsible which I don’t really see much of to be honest.
Also I wouldn’t exactly say you have been right about everything either. Just like we all haven’t been. Smear transmission for example. How many times do you need for someone to tell you that you were right that relaxing precautions in March was dumb before that doesn’t get pulled out as some kind of trump card in this thread?
Ok, what do you propose I as an individual do about it?
From today’s conversation, I would say advocate for keeping masks and other precautions in place (and Id add, switch to N95 if you havent done so yet). Try to advocate others to take similar precautions, and vax/boost when appropriate, if possible.
Otherwise, Id just say be aware of what risks you are taking, for both yourself and for your community, for whatever actions you are taking and make sure not to enter “vaxxed and relaxed” mode.
I personally am certainly not trying to blame people ITT for the continuing COVID issues or shame anyone for their actions, but do want to continue advocating for caution and asking people to rethink the idea of masks and other NPI as a form of punishment.