My gf’s sister turns out to be an anti vaxxer. I feel like she might budge when people start dying here though.
I’m ok wearing masks indoor for supermarkets and whatnot basically indefinitely. Any bigger restrictions than that once everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated here is gonna be a huge lol no from me though.
OK, at least grant me that it’s reasonable presumption on my end that when you start responding to me after I post a study that it’s only natural that I think you’re talking about that same study.
Given that we’re divorced from the study I was citing, I’m not totally sure who you think “they” are, but it has always been true that if there is widespread covid, there will be widespread infections in the vaccinated. That is exactly what the 95% effectiveness advertised at the launch of the Pfizer vaccine means: many (on the order of thousands, IIRC) vaccinated people in the study got covid (even if it’s a whole lot less than the unvaccinated), so as covid spreads more widely post-study, more vaccinated people will get it. This is just as true when there are more vaccinated people as when there are less. It’s also always been true that anyone, vaccinated or not, who can test positive can transmit the infection. It seems like your perception of the vaccines at launch was overstated, and that is leading you to believe that their current efficacy means that they’re much much worse than they were, but instead, it’s that your perception of their efficacy at launch was too high.
UK approaching herd immunity.
With 150,000 corpses I should fucking hope so.
OK, what studies are you basing your claims on then? Perhaps I haven’t read as much as you.
Those three, for starters. I think the first one is the most overstated. The second I think is true, but your urgency on the subject suggests that you’re much more concerned on vaccine efficacy than I am (for example, I think alpha is much more prone than delta to vaccine escape, even while delta is much more infectious to the unvaccinated). As CN stated earlier, if you say that the mRNA vaccines are as effective against covid as they are against delta back when there wasn’t even an alpha variant, we’re still popping bottles. To be clear, though, while I think you’re overstating things a bit, I’m also not claiming that my understanding is incontrovertible.
Your post beginning
I largely agree with all of that, assuming that you mean that keeping anti-maskers indoors means keeping them isolated at home rather than indoors in public places, which I think was your intention. My main thesis is that, as bad as the delta variant is for unvaccinated people – and it’s really bad, way worse than covid was a year ago – vaccinated people don’t have much to worry about for themselves outside of an increased risk of catching a minor case from, and then potentially transmitting a case to, unvaccinated people. Compared to a year ago, this is incredible news, because you can at least protect yourself and anyone you can convince to get vaccinated. It’s even great news compared to 6 months ago, when alpha looked much more prone to vaccine escape compared with delta now. But it also means that if you are in contact with the unvaccinated, and you give a shit about them, you at least need to mask up indoors and in crowds. This wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t for children who are ineligible for the vaccine, but if you’re around them or some other such person, it only makes sense to take more precautions as cases rise. OTOH, if you are a person who is vaccinated, isn’t around children or the unvaccinated, and has the luxury to be able to isolate if you get sick, then skipping a mask outside or eating out at a restaurant with outdoor dining really isn’t that bad. Even being indoors unmasked isn’t that bad in that scenario, because of how you’re not much at risk, and even if you’re infected you’re not much of a risk to others (even if your risk to others is non-zero). But the precise ethical lines in here are blurry.
If you didn’t want to mask up for the benefit of the unvaxxed, maybe you’ll do it for your own benefit.
“A new SARS-CoV-2 epidemiological model examined the likelihood of a vaccine-resistant strain emerging, finding it greatly increases if interventions such as masking are relaxed when the population is largely vaccinated but transmission rates are still high.”
Yeah, this is reasonable too, although the impact of new strain emergence from masked and vaccinated people is going to be a small effect when Florida gonna Florida and have massive inubators of the unvaccinated.
Vaccinated people don’t have much to worry about yet… But am I wrong to think that as the virus struggles to replicate, mutations will more aggressively develop into strains that WILL get thru the vaccine?
This will be unpopular, but other than those who can’t be vaccinated for medical and/or age related reasons, why give a shit about anyone who intentionally remains unvaccinated? If what you say is true, then vaccinated people should be encouraging them to remain unvaccinated so the virus has somewhere to go without mutating into more dangerous strains. Then again, I may completely wrong about how evolution works when it comes to viruses
I’m scared of this thread but also scared of googling –
Is the Delta variant more/less/equal dangerous to kids? Anyone I gaf about is vaxxed except my son who has Asthma. Should I be extra careful / never leave the house again?
I played a ton of live poker in the last two months and I think i probably should stop.
Maybe we should finally admit that the CDC is politically influenced and can’t be fully trusted? Weren’t they the ones who originally said wearing a mask does no good at the onset of the pandemic? I called BS on that immediately
I still say the media et.al. is being overly hyperbolic in terms of serious cases and death rates, but I’d definitely be extra careful and take precautions with an unvaxxed asthmatic child (i.e. continue to wearing a mask, etc.). And yes, maybe avoid spending a lot of time in crowded indoor scenarios like poker rooms where it’s almost certain there are carriers who may pass it to you, and you, to your son. Just my two cents
Maybe. The vaccine for stuff like measles has been stable for decades. This is the reason the vaccine targets the spike protein which is the bit that the virus uses to get into cells. It’s what’s called “highly conserved” meaning natural viral mutation tends not to change that part much, for obvious reasons. It’s hard to fuck with a key much and expect it to still fit in the lock.
Edit: But also this is a young virus and perhaps it can still come up with a new, different version of the spike protein. It’s definitely not just a given that this can happen even in the face of big selection pressure though.
Italy ldo. Similar climate, both appendages, both with turrible politics, both with awful infection rates, both with high degree of idiot Christians.
Eventually, unless it burns out first. But partial immunity is still way better than none.
This will be unpopular, but other than those who can’t be vaccinated for medical and/or age related reasons, why give a shit about anyone who intentionally remains unvaccinated?
See above. We’re all in this together, unfortunately.
UK still has pox parties - similar to covid vax in under 18’s, the pox vaccine is only given to kids with immune deficiency and maybe those with Downs
Our hospital system sent out an email saying that they’re going to require every employee be vaccinated. Doctors, nurses, techs, housekeeping, food services, administration, everyone.
They also said they’re working on how to implement this policy formally, and will let us know.
I don’t know of any anti-vaxxers that work in my Emergency Department, but I’m glad to see this.
My Emergency Department has gone on diversion each of the last two nights.
That means EMS won’t bring new patients to our hospital unless they’re code stroke or STEMI (heart attack in progress). We still have to treat anyone that brings themself through the front door.
This isn’t really a function of Covid spiking… it says more about our (ongoing and eternal) staffing catastrophe, and the number of people we serve. But Covid is definitely on the rise, and plays a role.
CDC did a large study based on blood donors.
With Covid going to almost zero this spring and now almost 10xing from there at what point does Biden start to take some heat for not doing more? Does this morph into a political disaster for Biden and the Dems if this wave is the worst yet? Would that be fair? How different is Biden’s response to what the response would have been under Trump?
I’m not sure I have a good answer for any of those. Biden has done some good things like trying to require federal employees to get vaxed or tested and requiring negative Covid tests to enter the country. It’s obviously not remotely enough though. Also does Biden deserve blame for essentially flying the mission accomplished banner a few months ago and being a contributor to almost everyone lowering their guard? I would argue yes.
