Work has been sort of busy so I haven’t had a chance to do my side by side test. But on the plus side today’s brew with the hario switch was pretty darn good though a bit under extracted.
My grind is probably too coarse and I’m only steeping ~2 minutes rn so I have a lot of room to grind finer, increase the immersion time, or do some agitation to improve the extraction.
I need to get something because the normal hopper is bugging the shit out of me but that one has no popcorning protection at all. I don’t think I really need bellows (you can use the lid of the “official” hopper as a makeshift bellows and as a dosing cup, which seems way better).
Yeah the normal hopper is awful for single dosing. I think the official single dose hopper is the best choice from what I’ve seen, although some of these 3d printed ones are interesting. Not sure if bellows would blow much out because I’m at near zero retention after flipping the flapper combined with RDT, but on a recent cleaning quite a bit blew out. Probably expected though.
I’m trying to get into coffee making. Currently make nothing at home and never have, don’t go out for coffee very often either. Main motivation is I recently started dating a woman who’s been very distressed about waking up at my place and needing to go out to get a cup to the point where she insisted on getting me a cheap coffee maker. And it’s not the first time this kind of thing has been an issue so it seems like a life leak. I’ve lurked this thread just because I find it interesting though so the thought of doing cheap cups with I guess preground beans is horrifying and I want to do better.
I ordered a Forte, probably sounds like overkill but my thinking was similar to what someone recently posted, I’m going to be learning and I feel better knowing if I’m making shitty cups it’s on me and not the equipment. Plus I tend to get deep into hobbies so I won’t need to upgrade in a year.
Also got v60 stuff. Mostly cause that’s what most of the thread discussion is about and I’d like to follow along. Also I’ll almost always be brewing 1-2 cups without any time constraints so it seems OK.
Anyone have any tips for just making passable coffee with this setup to start? Dark roasts are probably fine, I assume that helps? Mostly just want to make sure if I make something it’s drinkable even if I make some mistakes. Could also move to an aeropress I guess since it’s not like there’s much invested in the v60 but my impression is that’s more for convenience?
Hey man, we’re here to help. Forte is a great purchase if it fits your budget and you want to do it correctly from the start without messing around (I assume you are talking Forte BG with steel burrs). It’s a brick shithouse built by a great company with great customer service and is used by a number of coffee professionals.
You have a Porsche-class grinder, so you should probably buy coffees that can realize its potential. In general, people tend to refer to this as specialty coffee with a specific focus on LRSOs (light roast single origins, but in practice medium roasts are in play too). There are two components here: (1) roast level and (2) origin. However, I’m also going to talk about a third component you should pay attention to which is (3) processing type. This is gonna be the CLIFFS version that gets right to the point.
(1) Roast level. This is personal preference of course, but the “problem” with dark roast coffees is that most / all of the interesting sugars and acids are eliminated by the high temperatures. In the lighter roasts, more of the unique flavor compounds are retained which can create interesting profiles. Note: acids are important, and they can be overwhelming to people who are only used to Starbucks-quality dark roast coffees. I would recommend buying both a light and medium roast as a starting point. The general rule of thumb to remember is the lighter the roast, the higher the acidity.
(2) There are blends and single origins. Assuming we are talking about coffees from a good roaster, blends tend to be slightly cheaper and slightly lower quality than a well-sourced single origin lot. I personally only buy single origins, but you can’t go wrong either way if the roaster is good.
(3) When you buy specialty coffee, you’ll start to notice words like natural, washed, honey, and anaerobic. These refer to the way that the coffee is processed. The biggest difference seems to be between natural and washed coffees. Some hate them, I love them.
*My advice is to keep track of the coffees you’ve brewed in a spreadsheet noting the roaster, country of origin, processing type, tasting notes, and your rating/impressions to see if any patterns emerge. It’s literally a matter of taste as we all taste things differently due to anatomy, receptors, etc. Eventually, you and your partner’s preferences will likely become apparent if you’re tracking.
Regarding the V60, it’s considered the industry standard for pour-over coffee. I was watching a Prima Coffee review of a $3,000 single cup brewing machine and the dude was like “yeah this is really nice, but it can’t make a cup as good as a V60.” Tells you everything you need to know really, and while the V60 can be a bit of a mystery at times, I feel like most of that frustration disappeared when I upgraded to a better grinder.
Specifically on where to buy coffee:
I don’t remember which part of the country/world you’re in, but the good news is that this is the golden age of specialty coffee with tons of great roasters located everywhere. I tend to buy from ones that are closer to me regionally just to get faster shipments, but this shouldn’t sway you too much unless you’re nearly out of coffee when ordering. Expect to pay $15 to $20 shipped (12 oz) for high quality.
For a while, my favorite roaster has been Black & White Coffee in Wake Forest, NC due to a combination of factors: quality, price/value, selection, and shipping. There are many roasters out there of equal quality, but I usually recommend B&W due to familiarity. Their “year 'round” coffees are high-quality blends that should be a nice gateway for someone coming from retail coffee to specialty. Some of these blends are on the darker end of the roasting scale but that’s fine in this case.
Also take a look at their single origins:
Most of the quality roasters will have a similar structure of offerings. I recommend buying two coffees at a time (free shipping) that sound the most appealing and also the most different.
Thanks. Yes, Forte BG with steel. Gonna go through the hyper alignment when I get it delivered. I used to live in DC and I’m still close (VA)/have reason to return occasionally so I ordered a dark roast from Harrar recommended earlier ITT. Mail order to get started now, thinking I can resupply in person if I find something I like and plan ahead. Wake Forest would be close enough for quick mail orders so I’ll add B&W to the list too. I’m sure I’ll eventually go down the LRSO rabbit hole but I want to run through a bag of dark roast first just to make sure I know how to use the equipment. I’d hate to luck into brewing a perfect light roast cup and not even realize it because it’s such a departure from what I’m used to.
Man I wish I would’ve found this thread a long time ago
A true coffee aficionado would no doubt laugh at me, but I’m a coffee snob in my own right. First off, I can not start my day without it. Literally the first thing I do when I get out of bed is start the coffee. Second, I like what I like and it’s gotta be just right. Having gotten sick of inconsistency, I was about to buy scientific glass beakers to measure the water and a tri-beam scale to measure grounds. Not really, but I was close. I currently do measure the water every day in ounces and rough guess the scoops of grounds
The reason I can’t call myself a true coffee snob is, you probably guessed it… I use cream and sugar gomg! Pure cane sugar and coffee mate to be exact. I know I know… But I don’t like the bitter taste of straight black. Ironically, I do like it strong. I strive for that perfect balance of strong flavor with a little bit of sweetness and creaminess. Problem is, it eludes me most days
I have a very crude amateur setup. I’m currently living alone so use a Hamilton Beach single cup brewer. I use pre-ground either Gevalia or Dunkin Donuts medium roast. I don’t even know the difference between a medium and dark roast but I’m scared to try dark thinking it would be too strong/bitter for me. I also only use bottled water
Thing is, I’d be willing to invest in whatever it takes to get that perfect consistent cup. There’s nothing more frustrating than getting a perfect cup one day and failing the next. I’m going to read thru this thread hoping to pick up some tips on that. My main questions for now are:
I find Starbucks, Caribou, and even McDonald’s coffee too strong for me. Yet I hate weak coffee? I’m not sure what I’m looking for. Just a deep rich taste that isn’t bitter I guess
I’ll read the thread in full
Your setup sounds really awful. I bought a 1Zpresso JX manual grinder and Wacaco Nanopresso and haven’t made a bad cup with them yet. At least 200 cups so far. The grinder is awesome and I haven’t had to adjust the grind after getting it dialed in. The Nano is a huge step up from the Aeropress for taste/consistency and as easy to use with minimal practice. Every cup so far has tasted very good and had a thick layer of crema–just pump out the shot into your cup and top off with hot water to taste. I let the crema settle out a bit before I drink it and it’s always very good. I buy 2 lb. bags of LaVazza espresso beans from Costco and pour a weeks worth of beans into a Tupperware and vacuum pack the rest with my Foodsaver and store them in the refrigerator. I think this setup is foolproof and probably exactly what you’re asking for regarding a consistently perfect cup:
ETA: Grind your own beans and find a brand that gives you a solid cup. Dunkin Donuts coffee has always been bad, McD’s meh, and Starbucks is not great coffee. Lavazza is my lower limit for quality. This place is arguably top 3 in Seattle:
Their Vita blend is great black and my occasional splurge, but makes top notch lattes. Highly recommend trying it if you want to know what separates top tier and mid tier beans. Makes insanely good iced lattes and mochas.
So. I’m back to the thread.
Previous recommendation was the Baratza Vario. Sadly it seems they arent available anywhere in Australia.
There are a few Mahlkonig Varios (apparently co developed with Baratza) but only in ceramic.
My other option right now is the Eureka Mignon Specialita. Seems to be flat steel burrs in the same price range as Vario.
Any thoughts or advice?
it’s pretty easy to switch out the burrs … IF you can find them, they’re sold out everywhere
Thanks so much for this!
So what I just learned is that an espresso is not a drink, but a method for brewing coffee? I always stayed away because any time I’ve tried a shot in a restaurant or somewhere it’s been unpleasantly strong for me. Certainly not something I’d enjoy lazily sipping on in the morning. I just don’t need that much wallop in only a couple sips. My concern is that the Nanopresso would also be too strong since it seems only to make a shot and not a cup?
But I also know that I can’t drink Folgers or any of those brands that come in the big tins that my parents used to buy. Brands like Gevalia and Dunkin donuts are definitely a step up from them (not to mention much more expensive) and yet you say Dunkin donuts is outright bad. So different levels of snobbery? I’m definitely up for trying better beans/blends and grinding my own. I’ll at least try to find Lavazza
And again, I question just how much of a coffee connoisseur I can be when I defile it with cream and sugar? I once read that in order to be a true chocolaholic you must appreciate dark chocolate. Well, I do love a good quality milk chocolate but can not appreciate the notes of dark. Just too bitter for me. I wonder if coffee is the same way? Not sure I could appreciate a black shot of strong espresso
The description of the Citrus, honey, chocolate on the medium dark roast from The black and white Coffee scares me. Just how subtle are these “notes” ? Is it normal coffee? I wouldn’t be looking for flavored
I’m a fellow noob, but I’m confident in saying the most important thing you can do is buy a good (or at least decent) grinder and use fresh beans. There are a lot of different ways you can go from there but that’s a mandatory step in getting coffee that doesn’t require cream and sugar to be drinkable.
Gotcha thanks! I’m working my way upthread and am floored at how into this you can be. I’ve been on a quest for the consistent perfect cup of coffee for a while now. I may be sorry I ever opened this thread. Sounds like it’s gonna be expensive and a lot of trial and error experimentation lol
But Wait… Your pic looks like a full cup of coffee (with crema?). So maybe I can add enough water to the Nanopresso to get more than a shot? I watched some videos and they all made what looked like a tiny shot
[Preface: I don’t do espresso so only talking about brewed coffee.]
Yes, huge.
Mostly freshness, because when you grind, you’re exposing increased surface area to air which causes rapid degradation. There’s a bias / confounding factor though too which is that low quality coffees tend to be preground (think supermarket) while high quality coffees are usually whole bean.
Yes, single cups are just as good if not better. One of the best drip machines you can buy is a $2,400 single cup brewer.
The key to getting great coffee is buying from a great roaster, and there are tons of them now, way too many to list. Off the top of my head though:
Onyx (Arkansas), Heart (Portland), Klatch (Los Angeles), Black & White (North Carolina), Dragonfly (Vegas), George Howell (Boston), Tim Wendelboe (Norway), Verve (NorCal), Brandywine (Delaware)
And my favorite “value” roasters are internet businesses with no storefront, so lower overhead costs but generally still very high quality:
S&W Coffee (Indiana)
Happy Mug (Pennsylvania)
There are many dozens, if not hundreds, of quality roasters out there. It really is a golden age for coffee right now, and I suspect it won’t last forever. For instance, Nestle (Blue Bottle) is trying to capture specialty / third-wave coffee, and climate change is projected to significantly influence coffee crop harvesting for the worst. Also, specialty coffee isn’t really that popular right now and has room for big demand spikes–it’s one of the most demanded commodities in the world, and the vast majority of the supply is of comparatively low quality right now.
For coffee makers, you can go manual or machine. The industry standard for manual brewing of high-end coffee is the Hario V60 cone brewer. Get the plastic one for $7 and you’ll have the best coffee brewer money can buy. There’s a bit of learning curve and effort in manual brewing though, so for simplicity and convenience you might instead choose a quality drip machine. You need one that achieves proper extraction, and there’s a list of home brewers that have been tested and certified for exactly that:
I use a digital scale with 0.1g accuracy.
I’m looking at their page now and suspect that what they’re calling dark isn’t actually that dark. It’s probably more like a full city roast given they list fruit notes and acidity, so that’s fine.
Ok I’m totally sold on grinding my own whole beans from now on. Is it best to purchase from my home state? Or can I buy from one of the ones you listed?
Also is part of the fun of this being on a constant quest? There are so many varieties out there it could take years to find the exact roast you prefer not to mention the different brewing methods, etc. Something tells me this will become a hobby, which is fine with me
Just checked out the Hario V60 and it looks simple enough. My current drip brewer has reusable filters, which is kind of nice. I don’t have to worry about running out of filters or the added expense of them. OTOH, I’m guessing you’d say it greatly hinders quality?
Last question: I’m curious what your guys’ average cost per cup is? Not that it matters as I’m willing to spend to get a consistent perfect cup, but is it more than the kcups from Keurig? Much more?
I really appreciate the help. I’ll slow down the questions for now and do some reading and research. Sounds like my first order of business is to get a good quality grinder and go from there
There are two species of coffee plant that are generally roasted and consumed as coffee: robusta and arabica. Nearly all of the “good” coffee is arabica, while robusta tends to be extremely bitter with odd / undesirable flavors. I think it tastes and smells like tobacco, and I don’t mean that in a good way. It’s generally used as bulk / filler to reduce costs, and those tinned coffess like Folgers are mixtures of both types and of low quality. Ironically, they grind the beans with industrial roller mill granulizers which are huge, expensive, and simply unmatched in particle size accuracy.
I’ve brewed some decent cups of Dunk’n Donuts from the whole bean bags they sell. I think it’s pretty boring coffee but could imagine some people liking it who want non-offensive coffee without the wild flavors.
It is normal coffee and definitely not flavored. The intensity of the tasting notes really depends on the coffee and how good your setup / technique is. The reason we’re buying expensive grinders and aligning them is to isolate those notes as much as possible and eliminate the masking flavors. To me, the very best coffees are complex in a way that’s difficult to describe. For example, the best geshas I’ve brewed opened like floral tea but then quickly morphed into sweet candied flavors as they spread across my palate. It’s fucking wild and tough to explain.
