Cancel Culture and the Harper's Letter

Do you think that’s what most of these signatories are calling cancel culture? We have examples of some of them trying to silence and get teachers fired on campuses for having opposing viewpoints.

And I don’t think the generalizations being made in this thread are towards that type of cancel culture. You seem to view the cancel culture that’s being discussed here from a different view than what people see it as in this thread. Like iron seems to think cancel culture is a few people not talking to him because of a convo he had where he was unintentionally disrespectful to someone

Okay. I’m happy to reread the letter and rethink things.

Same reply as to Yuv. I am happy to join you in calling out Bari Weiss’s hypocrisy.

I find it difficult to believe that you are that naive while using language like “twitter mobs”. I might just be too skeptical and cynical, but hard to buy the act.

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https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1281704628279623680?s=20

The issue of cancel culture is a bunch of assholes think they should get people fired all over in essence a difference of opinion no matter how abhorrent you think it is. If it has nothing to do with job performance, it doesn’t matter. I don’t care what the guy fixing whatever I need fixed thinks, just how good of a job he does.

I’m glad shit people are on notice instead of absolutely nobody giving a shit but some have gone way too far going after people for some tweet they made at like 16 or 17. Drew Brees isn’t a piece of shit and people went hard after him like he was. (and what he said wasn’t bad, it’s okay to think people shouldn’t disrespect the flag, hell I don’t either and I’m not patriotic (my position since like 12 has always been we shouldn’t have the anthem before sporting events in the first place)–and I think it’s complete shit people wearing that on shirts and whatever else)

It’s just a shame it seems everyone wants to act like a child and/or part of a mob.

Only this forum would make the point Iran has a cancel culture without immediately realizing that alone is a perfect argument for not having one at all.

that’s what he did and it’s a shit argument.

Drew Brees is like the perfect example of everything that is fucking great about the current culture. He said something that people found very offensive (essentialy claiming that his teammates, for example, aren’t patriotic like he is). His own teammates called him out on how offended they are. He apologized and, at least by his admission, learnt from it. He is still rich, successful and employed. Perhaps wiser.

Your post is just a cry to keep the status quo about everything. Thankfully you, and people who hold this view, are losing and have absolutely not shot at winning long-term.

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Mobs are fun.

Also, no one said Brees should be cut or anything! They said he was ignorant, the he agreed himself! This is exactly how it should work.

It should also be pointed out that a lot of the signatories on this letter supported the Iraq War and never apologized for that, but being mean to people online is a bridge too far for them.

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The point was precisely that we shouldn’t have one here. I think it was pretty clear in context that I was defending Rushdie, not Khomeini.

MOBS

Well, I’ve read newspapers.

Come the fuck on, he said kneeling (a form of protest) was disrespecting the flag but it’s not. Also he wasn’t cancelled or anything like that, just mildly criticized in public because what he said was dumb as shit

I do remember the time you were harsh of the terrible effect of cancel culture towards the Alabama public transit system. Or that misguided cancellation of South Africa by the AAM mob.

Rivaldo, I wanted to respectfully address this as I believe you are misidentifying exactly who are those people that are using trans people as culture war fodder, and also to share a perspective on the struggle for trans rights that you or others may want to incorporate into how they view the issue.

Because I am a straight, white, cis, male who formerly was transphobic and homophobic; you may wonder, who is he to speak on this topic. Candidly, there are better resources for gaining improved understanding rather than listening to me. My perspective is influenced by the activism that I’ve done over the past decade, which has been mainly with LGBTQ organizations full of people who were far more accepting of me than I had previously been of them.

Currently trans people are culture war fodder because of those opposed to their equal rights, not because of those fighting for their rights. Full stop.

When we look at the historic struggles for civil rights in the USA, whether it be for the rights of women, indigenous people, Black people, LGBTQ, etc. we will see common methods of opposition. Examples of this can be seen in opposition to women’s “crazy” demand to have the right to vote, or criticism of MLK’s being an “outsider” or his tactics.

The opponents of equal rights will attempt to frame the struggle and the demands of activists as:

  1. crazy/hysteric

  2. counter to god’s law or “natural rights”

  3. and they will clutch their pearls about activists’ tone and/or tactics

Consider how the opponents of trans rights try to redirect our focus away from the rampant discrimination and violence(much of it institutionalized) that trans people face in their lives, and try to get us to focus on something like transgender participation in athletics. Or they try to decry “cancel culture” as running amok, because people are calling out transphobic language, actions, and support of discriminatory policies.

I am not claiming that I am an expert in how best to be inclusive of trans people when it comes to athletics. I do know that we don’t need to have fully resolved how to best be inclusive of trans people in sports prior to taking action that ameliorates the violence and discrimination that trans people face right now in their daily lives. I am confident that even if you and I could magically produce a coherent system for including trans people in sports, there would still be transphobic people opposed to equal rights to trans people outside of athletics.

So, when someone like Joe Rogan opines on trans rights by focusing on athletics, he is(intentionally or otherwise) using his platform in a way that negatively impacts how his audience considers the issue of trans rights. He could focus on the glaring and obvious violence and discrimination trans people face and the need for civil rights for all people, but he doesn’t. Ask yourself, would someone after listening to Rogan be more likely to think “I should stand in solidarity with trans people!” or “Trans people are ruining sports. Why are trans rights activists so crazy”. Then ask yourself how different the actions of people would be in the future if what Rogan spoke about made them think the former rather than the latter.

If someone, such as Joe Rogan, with a ratio of minutes spent in dialogue with the likes of Ben Shapiro vs minutes spent in dialogue with an expert on trans rights of approximately 1,000:0 decides to approach the topic of trans rights the way Rogan does, I believe he is acting with reckless indifference, and the president of the Human Rights Campaign is correct for calling him out.

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Compare that tweet to Ted Cruz encouraging boycotts of the NFL. Yeah he’s so worried about “cancel culture”

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/785978910093680641?s=21

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I really don’t know what most of the signatories are thinking. Bari Weiss and JK Rowling clearly have an axe to grind. I’m not exactly filled with sympathy for someone who shows their ass and then begs “free speech” when folks are mean to them on Twitter. So, fuck you to whomever signed the letter for utilitarian purposes rather than principle.
Like Yuv said, the letter never actually mentions “cancel culture” and the title of the Daily Beast article is pretty unfortunate. But there’s pretty clearly a generational divide between Weiss and, say, Martin Amis. Also between the two of us. I’m not going to scroll through my above comments to figure out when I wrote “cancel culture” when I ought to have written “free speech,” but I imagine there lies some of the confusion, and I apologize for that.

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Speaking of cancel culture

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This is Salman Rushdie all over again

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