They can accomplish getting the $600 and eviction moratorium and they could have done it at literally any point in the last two months. They wanted to go big because like you they thought they had leverage and like all of you they thought this would be the last major legislation before the election. That was based on negotiating with Mnuchin when Meadows wasn’t Chief of Staff back in March. Meadows is Chief of Staff now and he wants absolutely zero dollars for anyone because he has plenty to ride out all of this. Game conditions changed and they’re still basing it on what happened in a different game. This is why Pelosi is so out of her depth. This is not 2006, 2008, or even 2018, this is life and effing death in something no one on this planet has experienced.
Can you cite where Trump and Mitch were on board with $600+eviction moratorium and the Dems turned them down? I’m not saying it didn’t happen I just don’t remember it if it did.
They are going to get evicted in as great of numbers as the system can process (which is a great many because our capacity for evictions is super high), they are going to find themselves homeless living on the side of the roads. They are going to dumpster dive. They are going to live at campgrounds and under overpasses. The shanty towns will still be absolutely massive a year from now. Many of those people will live greatly reduced lives because of this year.
We are basically going to go through some portion of the Great Depression over the next 3-4 months.
I don’t understand how you can put yourself in the shoes of the people who are about to have this happen to them, but not in their shoes in January 2021 when the benefits expire but for good this time.
But that’s going to happen on an absolutely massive scale. Not one of you is advocating anything be done about that right now. That’s my problem. I have no problems with people wanting to advocate for big picture stuff. I have a big problem with people saying it’s okay for tons of people to have their lives ruined when literally nothing is happening right now. I said last week they had until Friday to get something done. That’s not happening. We’re going over the cliff whether anyone here likes it or not, and I think you’ll be quite surprised where that blame ends up regardless of what reality is.
There’s nobody in this thread that isn’t in favor of doing a deal that will actually cover these people’s needs even a little bit adequately. That’s not on offer. What was on offer was 400/week (a 50% cut from present levels!) with an expiration shortly after the election, and 1200 per person one time. They also very much wanted personal liability protections for businesses in the senate that would kill a larger absolute number of people than aid would actually save.
This is just like the impeachment stuff. It’s like you can’t wrap your head around how evil the GOP actually is and how bad the situation is as a result. Mitch McConnell is not who you think he is. He doesn’t have to do anything unless he’s forced to. He’s not going to give you shit. You tell me how we’re going to guarantee that these people don’t starve for 5+ years because Mitch decided to kneecap the economy to make the GOP look better next January because we caved and gave him a short term deal.
There are situations where there just isn’t anything to talk about anymore and the negotiation phase is over. Mitch shouldn’t have let the benefits expire before even starting this process. He needed more time. If we are all enormously lucky this will end up being the big mistake that ended his career.
You realize saying “I have a big problem with people saying it’s okay for tons of people to have their lives ruined” is a strawman right? Literally zero people are saying that.
Meadows claimed they offered the $600 til the end of November in the negotiating session a couple of weeks back while Pelosi and Schumer wanted it to go to the end of January. Pelosi several days later claimed they offered to extend it a week. I do not remember if the eviction moratorium was part of that. Meadows is a liar, so it’s not like I believe him over Pelosi but I for sure think the only real sticking point the GOP a-holes have is not giving anything to state and local governments.
Well, it’s not happening right now, and conditions could change so much in the next several months that it might not ever happen (if something had been done). You’re letting it happen or advocating letting it happen over an unknown variable because you want big systemic changes that might not ever come.
wat
You are literally saying if people have to have their lives ruined for us to get what we want that’s fine. I’m sorry you don’t see it that way, but that’s exactly how it reads.
Anyway I’m tapping out of this grotesque sideshow. Good luck I guess.
I don’t want big systemic changes. I want certainty that Mitch can’t do the exact thing he’s doing now in January. I want a deal that lasts the duration of the crisis or I want there to be no deal until the pressure forces the other side to agree to that.
The GOP is like an abusive spouse that knows their partner will never leave them at this point. The GOP knows they can just say and do the bare minimum to make sure they get what they want promise this is the last time and then turn around and continue the abuse as soon as the Dems cave. The rest of us are the kids in the household getting ruthlessly abused and living in squalor. Until the Dems actually figuratively leave and take us with them we are all stuck in this horrible abusive cycle and things will continue to get worse and worse.
You still can’t wrap your head around the idea that impeachment means nothing to day to day lives while this means everything. Your calculus is effed up because of how you do your business. That’s fine, but we will never ever see eye to eye on this.
LOL grotesque sideshow. Dude you’re a coward. I don’t know how else to put it. You’d rather kill a million+ people in six months than 50-100k now.
I’ve never ever said that man. You keep making stuff up to try and make a point that isn’t tethered in reality. Somehow the Dems were supposed to make a “skinny” deal that gives all the help that is needed. Yet that was never to my knowledge on the table. And I never ever said if people need to get their lives ruined to get what I want that is fine.
But here we go with calling people names and casting aspersions on them and then playing the victim and slinking off.
Also a big LOL at you of all people telling us “Impeachment means nothing” after lecturing us for months about not paying more attention to it and focusing on the primary instead. Just completely ridiculous.
Aaaaaaaand ignore.
I really don’t have time for this right now, but what I will say is that your words have backed up plenty of what I’ve said. You aren’t at the extreme of Riverman, Cuse, or Bored but you’re up there.
I just want you to consider the possibility that maybe the Dems could get the GOP to cave. Maybe by actually standing up for what is right for once.
Yeah… See you in February Nunn. You’re a smart guy, but the Trump era has been exploiting every blind spot in your world view for 3.5 years at this point and you still haven’t even begun to catch on.
Let’s do a little exercise here, why does the GOP want to pass the bare minimum needed until precisely the election with, remarkably, half the GOP senators voting against even that?
Once you do this exercise, you should be able to deduce why it is actively participating in evil to go along with their scheme. If you can’t then as the saying goes “you are either a fool or you are in on it, either way you’re out!”
I have and the GOP sure doesn’t look like it has any plans of caving. We just saw that reality come to fruition and nothing is going on currently to change that perception.
I’m telling you to look at it from the lens that the GOP won’t cave and create your calculus from that. I’m telling you to look at it from the lens that the GOP does not care how many people die from this and create your calculus from that. You’re creating your calculus from a bad faith actor with an incentive to do something (winning the election) not from a bad faith actor willing to kill as many people as humanly possible by doing nothing (knowing it’s probably going to lose the election). We are looking at this from completely different lenses, that’s the problem here. We aren’t looking at it from a different calculus as far as I can tell.
Absolutely no one can tell the future, so I’d like to prevent the scale of loss that is sure to come in the next month if nothing is done in hopes that an election has a favorable outcome and more assistance will come after that outcome if necessary since we actually don’t know what’s coming yet.