The argument is that the larger the overall margin is, the harder it will be for Trump or the Supreme Court to pull something off in the purple states that matter and the greater the outcry will be if they do. It’s not definitively true, but it’s something to consider.
Yeah, I understand. Perhaps when people on this site post “IF YOU DON’T VOTE FOR BIDEN, YOU’RE A DISGUSTING DEPLORABLE PERSON!!!” are causing lurkers to think that Biden supporters are unhinged assholes, voting is for lunatics and those posts are hurting Biden’s chances worse than missing a few votes in the least swingy states. It’s hard to tell what happens with these butterfly flapping its wings situations.
But, w/e. It’s not all about the election for me here. If someone wants to express their opinion, regardless of how it might impact Joe’s shot at winning, they should feel free. It’s incredibly unimportant and unimpactful. It’s all butterfly wing flapping.
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While I’m strongly in the “every vote matters” camp when it comes to rejecting racist fascism, I theoretically get why a solid blue-stater - justifiably disgusted by the current system - might write in or abstain as a protest.
That said, there’s something deeper happening ITT that seems to have been grunched over by some of the recent tutt-tutters. Yes, there is some piling-on of those who choose to abstain from voting in a world-defining election. But some of those abstainers are also dismissing anyone with a more pragmatic view as “MAGA blues” whose political activity - outside of that vote - is meaningless due to some falsely-assumed centrism. Although not excited to vote for Biden, I am committed to casting a vote that rejects Trump’s unique brand of fascist hate. I know that Bernie and many other genuinely world-changing progressives join me in this endeavor, and I believe its fair that our characters and progressive commitments not be maligned while making what we believe to be the best choice presently available for protecting progressive causes.
The whole “let’s throw a wrench in a broken system” impulse is a large part of why Trump was elected in the first place. And rather than advancing progressive causes via the excoriation of the establishment, his presidency has set us back decades while entrenching incredible human suffering and - potentially - setting the stage for a fascist state whose nuclear/military power might lead to centuries of entrenchment. For many of us, the clear choice is to stop fascism first, and then to keep marching toward progress. Because fascism is the death of progress.
So I guess the TL:DR version is this. There’s a lot of passion on this forum and - combined with many of our genuine fears about what the future holds - this can easily translate into conflict and derision. But while I think it’s fair for us to call out decisions that don’t enhance progressive causes, we have to be a little more careful about suggesting that posters don’t.
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I’ll take 100 @PocketChads that refuse to vote for Biden but take direct action in the streets over 100 @simplicitus “progressives” that despise the poor and sniff their own lawbro farts.
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Why not take direct action and also grudgingly vote for Biden?
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Yeah. A better world can grow from inside the existing world. A tiny seed of a better world struggling inside or existing without conflict orthoganally is better than being absorbed and certainly better than being part of a failed revolution or one that just becomes what it was fighting against.
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There’s a subset of people on this forum who think not voting for Biden makes you a disgusting human being, a useful idiot, a stooge for Putin, and a Trumpkin. Do they think people who don’t take direct action are disgusting human beings and Trumpkins?
jwax13’s post here wasn’t made in a vacuum. Most of what happens here, or any forum, is people interacting with each other and not writing policy papers or recommendations for the voting public.
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How would this be beneficial in the large swathes of the country where the communities that would be empowered are “deplorable”? To borrow another phrase, seems like even if you were 100% successful this would just result in pockets of “safe spaces” where the oppressed would be secure.
Serenity prayer.
FYP. Serious question though. His campaign seems to be hinged on taking us back to the halcyon day before Trump’s inauguration, and not an inch further left, in fact probably more to the right.
FFS he talks shit about M4A, slobbers all over the police state and carcarel system, and he has a 40 year career of being a better ally to banks than to the people who he’s expecting to vote for him.
Beyond “Look at how bad Trump is, dontcha know”. What’s the pro Biden argument on any policy that should be convincing to people on the left?
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Unless you live in a few swing states, your vote doesn’t mean shit. Last time I checked, Republicans keep getting elected POTUS while losing the popular vote by millions.
I find it particularly out of touch when Brits and Canadians lecture people ITT in solid blue / red states on their obligation to vote for someone that doesn’t reflect their values.
The calculus is different if someone lives in a swing state.
I think it’s a very bad idea to try to demoralize and dissuade anyone from voting for Biden right now, I don’t care who’s writing policy papers or whatever.
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Would we be better off somehow if people in CA stayed home and the Republicans won the EC and the popular vote?
I think it’s a worse idea to pretend Joe is ok and call people sub-human garbage for not voting for him. It’s like trying to keep your kids off drugs. Be honest. Everyone knows when people are full of shit. IE, it’s more than ok to say Joe sucks. It’s better than lying.
Cone on. We don’t have a map showing the state each of you lives in.
Safer to assume our vote doesn’t matter than to assume it does.
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Oh well in that case carry on abstaining everyone.
Chads,
I have tremendous respect for everything I’ve observed about your comments in this thread and your apparent political activism outside of it. I am largely responding to one poster who seems to go straight to “you’re useless if you vote for Biden” but I prefer not to call people out by name. That said, in this case I think not providing a name has maybe had the negative effect of lumping others into my perceived target zone.
I think that not voting against Trump is a loss of progressive EV. I also think that not showing up to protests is a loss of EV. I try to maximize my EV by doing both. I am very much open to learning about and pursuing other ways to increase progressive EV. My guess is that you have probably done more than almost anyone on this forum to increase progressive EV, and I genuinely thank you for that.
I think this thread has gotten unfairly dichotomized in a way that people perceive some as saying “only voting matters!” or “only (insert non-voting action) matters!” I contend that both matter.
ETA: I’ll refrain from posting further in this thread, as I’m not certain it’s helpful. I have a three-year-old and a client list full primarily of trauma-exposed kids. I worry for all of them, and I want them to have the brightest future they can. Thank you all for fighting for that shared goal, regardless of how you choose to do so.
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Part of the reason for my posts along these lines is just venting. It already sucks to have 1/120 millionth of a say in all kinds of important rules you are subject to, but then to even have that vote not mean much, to live in the largest and one of the least swingy states, with 1/65th the representation in the Senate as some other state, makes it suck even more. Not much of a democracy.
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If I lived in CA and was being held hostage by the Dakotas, Montana, etc. I’d feel pretty fucking apathetic when it comes to casting a meaningless vote for Joe.
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