Yeah wouldn’t want to falsely blame those saints in Russia.
I suppose it was a defense, but the thing to understand is that most everybody is hardwired to be derisive and fearful and hateful towards things they find weird and don’t understand. And somebody of Dawkins’ platform and influence should know better, because it’s the subtext of the tweet not the actual text. Of course in a vacuum saying something like “Trans people huh… Whoa that’s kinda weird…” is not hateful or dehumanizing or whatever but we don’t live in a vacuum, we live in the real world, and again Dawkins should know better. In the real world it’s rarely ever “Trans people huh… Whoa that’s kinda weird… I’d like to learn more!” and is usually “Trans people huh… Whoa that’s kinda weird… Let’s eradicate them from existence.” And we can insert any marginalized group in that example.
Blame hateful bigots for ruining honest scientific curiosity and skepticism, not the people telling you about the hateful bigots.
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Well, in practice the typical problem is not people that say “let’s eradicate them” because that’s usually a pretty small group. There’s usually a much, much larger group of privileged people where the continuation is something along the lines of “Anyway, they can do whatever they want, I dont have anything against them, but its not my problem if they have a hard life, after all I don’t personally attack them”. This larger unempathetic group doesn’t acknowledge their role in the issue at all.
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Is the correct approach to these people to try and convince them that trans people are not weird and try to help them understand or to acknowledge their perception of trans people as weird without trying to change that and instead try to convince them not to fear weirdness?
In practice I’d say whatever is most effective, but in theory I’d say it’s definitely to not fear weirdness, weirdness is good. I’m a weirdo and I like weirdos. The actual word ‘weird’ already doesn’t even have the negative connotation that ‘abnormal’ does, for example.
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And I’d totally be friends with those voluntarily celibate weirdos, I just wouldn’t invite them to the orgies.
Duly noted. We all know what happens when you assume, but I really did just assume Dawkins was way too smart to make such an insensitive tweet and that it must have had educational value. Before this, I’ve never had anything but great respect for the man. I’ve probably read everyone one of his books. Even watched all the Christmas science lectures he used to do for little kids. I still have a hard time believing that he himself is phobic or hateful in any way. But I agree someone with his platform needs to be more careful. He put out a clumsy insensitive tweet not much different than the clumsy way I started this thread. I haven’t read his responses to the backlash and I probably should before defending him further. I’m just stating that I came out of the gate giving him every benefit of the doubt possible and that was obviously wrong
I’d still say I wouldn’t put Dawkins down as a ‘hateful bigot’, rather that he’s helping their cause whether he wants to or not.
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I think you’re way under estimating how large the “let’s eradicate them” group is and being a little too hard on everyone else. It would be nice to get the opinion of someone who is trans, but my guess is they’d be very happy if EVERYONE simply didn’t have anything against them and treated them equally and it might be presumptuous of you to think they want or need people like us sticking up for them as if they need sympathy more than equality and the right to be included in all aspects of society
So… you havent spoke to any trans people…
And you think you know more about trans people that say, someone with a trans brother… or any of the other posters here with trans friends and colleagues.
Your view of the world and how you come to conclusions needs work.
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If someone has a friend, brother, or is trans themselves, they should absolutely school me. Please. I’d love to hear from someone who is actually trans how they’d prefer I help and conduct myself.
Also, I never said I knew more about trans people. I agree my world view needs work and is still developing, but you should be able to read by now
Why do you have this weird idea that they’ve got to come to you and explain all this stuff to you. Go read articles written by trans individuals and their advocates. You’re incredibly intellectually lazy.
He’s the Change My Mind meme guy.
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Cactus possesses some intellectual curiosity but seemingly zero drive to make it happen.
This may make him extra susceptible to these propaganda outfits.
Hopefully he will push himself to change that.
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Wish I had people teaching me stuff about politics for free when I was in my early 20s.
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Depends on the people. I’m sure there are q-anon dipshits out there who would be delighted to educate 20-somethings for free.
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We are schooling you. You arent listening.
This isn’t really a thing in my experience. Usually if someone professes to want to understand something but demands that you do all the work making point after point after point and they question each one, then they don’t really want to understand it. They just want you to chase your tail endlessly. This is like Modern Conservatism 101, whatabout this, whatabout that, I haven’t seen that Tweet, I’ve never met a trans person, my ignorance isn’t my fault it’s your fault for never convincing me.
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Its ego protection. No one will ever accept a reality that means they are not smart or a bad person. So they have to find ways out. Its incoherent on the outside, but ticks the only important box on the inside.
In contrast. We all smugly celebrate the occasional time we change our minds in the face of a good argument as further justification of how right and smart WE are.
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Now that you’re active here again, care to revisit this?