The centrists in the protests didn’t accomplish anything more than they did in the 2017 Women’s Marches. The budgets were cut because they wanted to try to keep more police stations from being burned down.
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I think most people do mean it as propaganda. I don’t. Perhaps weirdly, I don’t think ACAB as much as most people here - maybe especially the anti-abolishionists.
Didn’t realize there were identifying badges worn by BLM protesters and “the man” was able to make a quantitative measure when enough “non-centrists” were present to force their hand. My bad.
“No need to act yet, still 51% centrists out tonight”.
Dude, you’re just playing dumb. This is bad faith.
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I know what they mean. Maybe I don’t want to go quite as far, but I do want to do something and people like them can be the leading edge of a movement. Whatever my policy goal is, I believe I benefit from having more extreme people to my left driving the action.
Jesus who said otherwise? ZIzak was arguing we should shut up, not the other way around.
And this is really why something like firing all the cops and hiring new ones with college degrees and sensitivity training wouldn’t change anything. Most cops are nice people who are trying to protect people and think that’s what they’re doing. Or at least they start out that way.
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I don’t think you were told to shut up. I think you were told that your type of criticism isn’t useful. It’s implied that your worldview is invalid and that you should adopt a different framework for discussing policy.
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I said based on, not involved. You’re trying to start with the finished product. That’s stupid. It’s like insisting the publishers of High Times have Colorado’s Proposition 64 printed in their very first issue. Or asking the Stonewall rioters to pre-write the majority opinion in Goodridge v. Department of Public Health.
There is a real world effect from these sorts of demands which makes it even harder to accomplish any meaningful change. It is the exact opposite of helpful.
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I’m not trying to do anything. I wasn’t involved in the discussion until you argued anyone with an opposing view shouldn’t voice it in the very same thread where it’s argued protesting is the solution.
If the idea is so terrible that any critique is destructive to it, it doesn’t deserve to become policy.
Good ideas can be fragile too. Bad ideas can be powerful. Lies can be powerful.
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This is an epistemological derail but I think the exact opposite is true. The robustness of an idea is one way we test it’s value, especially in a political context when we can’t rely on empirical truth as easily.
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Although there were bloody protests for LGBT rights beginning with the Stonewall riots in 1969, hasn’t the push for and receipt of LGBT rights in the past 30 years been pretty much the result of a gradual, societal normalization of LGBT people?
Edit: Or as my daughter put it, “You see, the trick is that many gay people are white.”
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I’m sorry, I didn’t realize this whole thing was just another chance for you to die on a mole hill of misinterpretation. My mistake, and I should have known better.
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Dude, BLM is explicitly anti-capitalist. Always has been. So… your values don’t align with BLM. So how about quitting with lol-tastically claiming you are a supporter/etc. You are on a different “team”. How about being honest about that… with your self at least.
Oh look, a dude on interwebs ‘white-explaining’ to BLM. Imagine that. I’m sure they really needed some random fool on the interwebs to explain to them about how their policies are “inevitable failures”.
Tell me how I misinterpreted you and I will happily concede.
This seemingly official link for Black Lives Matter says nothing about being “anti-capitalist.”
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
Is Sabo just making shit up again? Maybe he can whitesplain it to us.
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I tried to say something similar before, but trying to enact large scale change is a blunt instrument. @microbet and others acknowledge that there are going to be a range of opinions on what the ideal system is, but the important thing is to persuade people of your righteousness and get the ball moving in your direction. They can figure out what abolishing looks like a decade from now when they reach that bridge.
I say this as someone who doesn’t identify with abolishing.
It’s just cherrypicking. Thinking BLM is inherently anti capitalist when a tiny percentage of adherents believe in it is ridiculous.
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I agree and again I never said anything about supporters of abolishing not voicing their opinions.
Take back the ‘again’ and I’ll give you an answer. ETA: saw your edit… you are obviously doing your trolling crap again. Fuck off.
For the rest of you, the graphic is from the Portland chapter of the BLM Network. Since we were chatting about Portland above, I grabbed a screenshot of their website: Black Lives Matter: PDX » BlackPDX.com.