Instead of using a negative you could have spoken in the affirmative instead : “they don’t deserve to die”.
is the basis for most democratic legal systems including the US one. If you don’t like it you should try and change the law.
I love this analogy because it proves my point, not yours. What do (the people who Rittenhouse) and the woman shot have in common? They all initiated an attack on someone who was not harming them!
I don’t know why it’s so hard to see where people like me are coming from. If you attack someone who is not threatening or disturbing you, you don’t get to choose their response. I mean, you can whine and gripe about it on an internet forum, but I hope you’re a little more careful in real life
Why would 1st vs 2nd degree murder matter for a self-defense claim?
The gun charge didnt even make the jury, it was thrown out by the judge. The restless endangerment charge was a not guilty.
This is all readily available at
He could have gotten convicted on a lesser charge like second degree murder if the jury found that he was acting in imperfect self defense. So if he actually thought that he was acting in self defense but his belief wasn’t what a reasonable person would hold that’s imperfect self defense. An honest but unreasonable belief that he was justifiably acting in self defense.
Right, so my understanding is that it mitigates punishment not a guilty/not guilty verdict. I.e. self-defense, acquitted of either 1st or 2nd. Imperfect self-defense, jury can mitigate charge. Acquittal implies jury bought self defense so would have acquitted of all charges for 2nd degree murder too (at least taking the jury reports at face value).
IANAL, but the “2nd-degree murder was a slam dunk” seems not very factual.
Not only is it not factual, but Rittenhouse was in fact charged with second degree murder, it was a lesser included charge. For first degree murder, the state had to prove that Rittenhouse did not believe that his actions were necessary. For second degree murder, the state simply had to prove that Rittenhouse’s actions were not reasonable or proportional. I don’t think that the instructions described imperfect self defense by name but I think it’s implied by those instructions. If the jury thinks he acted in imperfect self defense they can convict on second degree murder, if they totally reject his self defense claim then first degree murder would be the right charge.
So given that the jury acquitted on both first and second degree murder, well, no, it wasn’t a slam dunk second degree murder prosecution.
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Amazingly prescient
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We were talking about reckless endangerment of safety (RES) though which is different from murder. You said if the prosecution had brought those charges, it would have resulted in an easy conviction. You also claimed that these were charges that you could support. I pointed out that they brought those charges, and he was found not guilty on both counts.
Was just about to repost my exact post before seeing you had it covered. Excited for the next episode! Wonder what will happen??
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What I said (what I meant if I wasn’t clear), was that second degree is a lesser charge and easier charge to convict on than first degree
He was NOT charged with second degree murder (if so, cite please). The judge allowed the jury to consider lesser charges, but prosecution did not charge
Actually, the law worked just fine in this case afaic
I’m bowing out of this conversation at least the rest of the year. It’s the 3rd or 4th time I’ve engaged and it doesn’t look like I’m changing anyone’s mind and you guys certainly aren’t changing mine. Your welcome to get your own skulls caved in while refraining from lethal force. Fortunately, not everyone needs to accept that philosophy. I couldn’t if I tried
Strawman
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No no, saying that you wouldn’t murder someone for stealing a cheap easily replaceable mass produced item obviously means that you would also just casually allow yourself to be bludgeoned to death, everyone knows that.
The judge allowed it, not on his own initiative, but because the prosecution moved to include the lesser included charges. The defense didn’t object and the judge allowed it. So the jury decided on the question of second degree murder. Read the jury instructions, linked above. He wasn’t charged initially with second degree murder but I don’t see why that’s important. The jury considered second degree murder and rejected the charge.
If you’re getting your skull caved in it’s acceptable to use lethal force. If someone shoves you in a bar it’s not. There’s obviously a line somewhere beyond just determining the aggressor.
What % of Georgia residents would prefer to see a not guilty verdict?
I think you’re wrong about a lot of stuff, but I hope you stick around.
Come play walrus with us.
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Hmm?
At least he seems to agree that carrying and discharging a semi-automatic rifle into a crowd during a riot is recklessly endangering safety and should be a snap conviction.
My MAGA brother in law was extremely pro-rittenhouse, I mentioned at dinner tonight the “I wish I had my fucking AR” video getting tossed, he didn’t believe it, said “if they actually have video of this kid saying something like that, they would have to show it to the jury, that’s EVIDENCE” and he started googling it right there at the restaurant, I think he may have actually changed his mind.
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