I don’t know how to answer you. If you make a cool post and somebody shits on it because they don’t like you or want to troll you, then that could suck and you may be disinclined to post with them. But in the post after you say, after saying you’re glad that they don’t like you, that it’s kind of badge of honor not to be liked by them, that you would have had to make horrible life choices and mistakes to be liked by the likes of CN or Jman, which is just as good as calling them horrible yes?
What would you like here, or even theoretically, the unmoderated freedom to call them horrible at any time in any way? What if people disagree with you that they’re horrible, or how horrible they are, or yet still think a diverse forum is a net benefit to most even if the cost is holding back our bleakest assessments of its participants? What if you calling them horrible [you didn’t actually say that here, just continuing the what if] raises the likelihood that somebody else, reading the thread, not discerning as you, calls another person horrible who actually isn’t horrible, and cites you calling those people horrible as precedent?
I don’t think there’s any such thing as fair moderation when the mods themselves are actively involved in threads, though one mod had a fair stab at it and was honest enough to say said he’d found it hard to give deserving bans to his friends, though he did just that.
I’ve said all along the moderation model itself is broken here because it’s seen as a privilege instead of a duty.
But in a forum of ok people moderation wouldn’t even be needed apart from cleaning up spam etc, and this has now been proven beyond any doubt.
So the problem isn’t with moderation, it was with the people who made moderation necessary by their egregiously awful behaviour, inciting reactions by contriving fake claims about posters and shitting all over threads, that then resulted in bans and an intensification of bad feelings. Those responsible know this full well because they were repeating their learned and rewarded behaviour from 2+2.
In that case you probably do need some moderation imo but not as a privilege but as a duty to be shared as an onerous task between all posters in a short rota.
Think of it as s shared house where people are bad at cleaning the kitchen and bathroom after they’ve used them. It would make sense to have a rota for cleaning and you could make it the pre requisite for voting rights.
I had a long thing I just typed up, that I deleted (but saved cuz i’ll probably end up posting it!), but I just want to say right now, check out the moderation logs for some of my bans. You’ll be horrified and assume there’s some context you’re missing.
What’s even the guess as to what’s the personal attack?
Is it saying that Riverman makes a bunch of antagonistic declaratory posts and then seems incapable of engaging in the discussion that stems from these posts?
Is it saying that Jman wants to openly troll a thread and topic, but he’s not good at trolling so he doesn’t want his troll posts challenged?
All the bonus points for OMGheadmitit, like all this talk about trolls and you get that mf spelling out that he wants to, and by God it’s his natural right, to troll.
That would probably ruin a forum. You’ve described precisely what’s happened to every Captain at some point. In total sum I’m nowhere near the biggest victim, but I think in parts per million I am.
I mean, the GTO stance of this whole thing is closer to just accusing me of orchestrated trolling to make so many people here look ridiculous, considering it panned out so perfectly (of course I didn’t do this, I’m not that clever).
It’s been said plenty of times before but if the moderation were fair then half the forum would be permabanned. I mean, scroll up one post lol (yes I know that post was a reply to you and you already read it). That’s where part of the “no moderation” policy stems from.
But also, and this is entering best kept secret territory…
Fuck it I’ll just copypaste it:
Unchained was fine. Nazi Punks and Assorted Deplorables, in baskets or singletons, were styled on so hard they left or simmered all the way down. And anybody who ventured in who was deploracurious would see a bunch of cool smart funny mfs styling on the views they were curious about. I mean, ffs, half this shit is just making their deplorable views feel cringe and lame lol, one doesn’t need to wade into heady moral and ethical frameworks. Lol Toothsayer your Trad views aren’t cool, they’re fucking corny and they definitely ain’t punk rock.
What changed, and what Trolly misremembers (6ix says in the most benefittest of the doubt that ever was benefitted), is that when the Nazi Punks Et Al were protected is then when things went to shit. When Chez became mod and it wasn’t actually “Unchained” anymore, it was “Pv7”. My best stylings were deleted and neutered and I was no longer able to just beat to death how horrible mfs and their views were.
I’m glad you used scare quotes because what I think you meant was, leaving the site after facing the existential crisis that stemmed from winning the most Pyrrhic of all victories.
Something like Milgram’s Stanford Prison Hangover seems a fitting name.
Here’s the one rule I’d want to see implemented, to nix talk like this below, simply because it’s soooooo cringe:
I’m probably the only person who doesn’t post from a smartphone and right now I’m playing poker, analyzing cryptocurrency charts, and reading and posting in this thread. Everybody multitasks or posts in their downtime (ever notice the spike in posts during the times when people generally commute?) and people brag about having bullshit office jobs with a bunch of downtime. Nobody on any side of any of this is wasting their lives and as a corollary, I’d be super careful about saying how long you think it takes to read and write a post, as that could backfire horribly. It’s just a bottom-of-the-barrel hacky forced cringe insult to try to belittle somebody.
If I didn’t just say what I was doing, there’s a real chance I could be posting whilst having sex with all your moms, or climbing Mount Everest, or having sex with all your moms at the peak of Mount Everest. It only take one hand to post using a smartphone and the other could be grabbing an ass or grabbing on to a Sherpa for dear life!
I’m serious, that’s the only destined-for-failure dunk attempt that should result in a hyperpermaIPban4life.
Fuck me I was hoping I’d come back to see a combo-break at this point but alas.
It’s a disturbing testament to the dysfunction of this forum that people, from either side (the supposed neutrals are ~all really on one side BUT I DIGRESS), are scared to post in this thread and even give hearts.
Like, really try to let that sink in for a second.
Even myself! I mean obv I’m ultimately like F U I Do Wat I Want, but I even have this low-grade pavlovian anxiety that if I post a bunch of times in a row then I’m Doing Something Wrong. When in reality it does not matter, in the sense of having some, even negligible, negative effect in the slightest.
Just typing it out is so insane that I hope I’m helping some future student with their thesis about online communities.
Every time this topic is discussed at any medium-to-great length, inevitably (like our specific Law Of Internet) somebody will say something to the effect, “Omg on no other forum will this be tolerated omg on all other forums they would’ve moderated the devil out of this etc etc etc.” But, a specific site is never named.
So. Which forum sites? Name one.
Spoiler alert: You can’t, because it doesn’t exist, because the only thing that is similar to this is {Censored}'s OOT and that was an elaborate running joke. The examples like Cooking A Good Steak Forum don’t apply, but even then I’d guess they’d have an offtopic non-steak subforum where anything goes. I’d wager there’s no forum in existence, of this size and scope, devoted to talking about anything (lol unstuck politics get real), that doesn’t do community modding with a healthy amount of respect in all directions, that doesn’t ascribe to this utterly sociopathic behavioral norm of pretending like we’re all perfect strangers who haven’t been posting together in various venues for almost two decades lol. It’s utterly deranged.
I know guys, sorry, it’s seems too perfect to be real but PVN is not my sockpuppet. Dudes as corny and cringe and mediocre as this really do exist. When an ACist stops saying the n-word he has to go somewhere, I guess, and I for one am a welcoming dude.
