About Moderation (old original thread)

I think personal attacks are fine. Have at it! Don’t a lot of us enjoy a good ribbing among friends? That balance is partly how we build trust among play, like when my kittens or puppies gradually test each other’s limits through play that might look like fighting but is both fun and how they help each other grow.

Just be willing to say heh fair if someone says whoa there buddy, a little too far. Some days a joke about my face makes me laugh. Others it makes me cry. I’ll be mindful of whether I’m feeling something out of step with reality if the other person will show compassion when right or wrong, the feeling is too significant to just ignore. We need to be friends then, not arbiters of truth.

We all do well to express boundaries even in no-stakes situations with each other if for no other reason than to build trust that we can rely on each other to do so when it is most needed.

This sort of thing can of course be abused, but lol, think that through to the worst case scenario. Let’s say someone really does behave with such sensitivity that everyone finds it impossible to interact with that person without triggering them into a rage fest or self-harm or just a generally bad day. People will make whatever accomodations are within their means, and if we still aren’t compatible, that’s okay. We can’t be all things to all people.

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Is the purpose of moderation and specifically increased moderation to try to get people to bicker less and be less abusive or is it just that people want punishment meted out?

Eta: Goofy, I’ve said this a lot and I’ll continue to say it I think the personal attack rule is stupid if it’s just about the most obvious insults. It’s trivially easy to dance around that and it’s not substantially different.

smrk’s post is @BestOf worthy. Please don’t delete it.

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You make some fair points here and it really highlights where I seem to differ from the majority of the board.

I have no issue with every idea I post being attacked. That’s the fun part. Let’s fight and hash it out. That’s when I actually get to learn things here which is the most +ev part of being here.

I have an issue with attacking people. As you rightly point out I’ve certainly not been innocent of this either.

However, we differ on what is an attack.

The forum I want is one where we argue and hash out ideas without calling each other morons, shitlibs, Bernie bros etc.

You are not drawing as bright a line as I am between calling someone out without name calling and character assassination and calling someone out by calling them a name or telling them to fuck off. That’s fair. I am sure I will be accused of calling for “decency for decency sake”. Also fair.

But I think I am backed up by a decent amount of social science that shows name calling simply hampers discourse. It adds nothing of value.

I see a huge difference between,

“Your centrist ideas are really terrible and have harmed people in the case under discussion. Here is how”

And

“Lol always a shitlib being a shitlib”

Again, I need to do better here too but the difference between these two has a real effect on discussion, in my opinion.

Anyway, I’ll admit when watevs got so much support today and I was called a whiner by several people I started fantasizing about pulling a commonwealth. Then I thought “wtf you dummy, if everyone thinks something different than you, it’s probable you are wrong!” Perhaps I am. I hope so.

I am going to take Johnny’s advice and give watevs and you the benefit of the doubt. I am taking you both off ignore and I’ll do my best to have real discussion in the future.

What better time to bury the hatchet than Christmas!

:grin:

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I agree that saying no personal attacks won’t stop the real problem as there are so many ways around it.

My suggestion would be a rule along the lines of: “No non-substantive personal attacks that are not related to the current issue.”

So if someone makes a post you think is pervy it’s ok to say “You’re a perv because …” It would not be ok to just say - “Fuck you, you pervy POS.”

It also would not be allowed to make unrelated personal attacks. So if you’re arguing in a different thread with the same person on a completely different issue, you would not be allowed to bring up the prior post you found pervy, or in general refer to the person as a perv.

I would also add that you should only be allowed to attack the poster(s) you’re arguing with. So something like - “That is the type of bad argument I’d only expect JonnyA to make” - would not be allowed if I was not involved in the discussion.

I think the above are often what lead to the personal feuds never-ending and blowing up constantly.

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All you folks admitting you’re guilty of the thing you want to address. Will you be doing any introspection? Will you try and change? I mean … most people here seem to be trying to maintain the OK to keep doing what they do. If you really can’t debate without resorting to personal attacks, that seems like something you’d want to do serious work on. I really think all personal attacks should just be eliminated, if we actually want to build the community people seem to want.

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Well, modding is not exactly causing a big love fest. Like, I guess if every mod always perfectly moderates every party in every argument exactly the way that every party thinks is fair this might…wait, that’s unpossible. The niceness is going to have to be like 95% from the ground up.

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The forum I want is one where we can argue and hash out ideas without being derailed by tone policing.

Microbet and others have made the point. Increased moderation is not the solution, or at least it is not central to or the only solution. Also, very few people want the level of moderation (including our current mods) that would be required to eradicate the lion’s share of “personal” attacks.

My prediction for the forum in six months is:

  • Some people will have left (maybe even some “key” people)
  • Mod mix will likely be different
  • Forum grudges and feuds will revert to simmer
  • Similar discussions to the one ITT will periodically take place with similar views and results.
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Agree there JT. I used to think tolerance meant finding a way to live without boundaries against the things I find intolerable. Now I see that boundaries are not the same as intolerance, no matter how much you might get told it is by people who can’t stand anyone’s boundaries but their own.

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Unofficial Mod Policy

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Dammit I’m sorry I missed this. Like, I had big plans to suggest this even if nobody else did, so people needing some company could hear me talk shit and nonsense for hours with my weird ass speech cadences.

Then I pulled almost a double all-nighter and quite literally slept through christmas. Went to bed at 11am expecting to be up by 10pm or so at the latest. Then, suddenly, it was 4am today.

But NYE lets do it. Unless there’s no more covid in 5 days. Fingers crossed.

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Why so many people spazzing out posting the c-word everywhere?

90 percent to troll the users who are offended by it, 10 percent because they are misogynistic.

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funny-guy

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I was going to call you out for using spazzing but I see you did it in the American context so we cool.

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So you’re planning to continue posting little snide remarks until it blows up again?

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Just so that I’m clear on the rules of engagement we’ve decided on as a community:

Using a ridiculously derogatory word for women: “Get over it, snowflake, nobody cares if you’re offended.”

Calling people who use the ridiculously derogatory word for women out for their continued use of it: “Gotta protect the snowflakes feelings?”

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Generally on your side on both things, but as far as I can tell, in the last day you’ve cast the ‘what about the flu’ bait in the covid thread (and hooked one fish), and this post seems like it could have easily been composed without all but explicitly calling certain people snowflakes. I don’t know if you’re trying to restart anything, but if the c word policy has not been decided to your satisfaction, let’s try to focus on that constructively.

FWIW, it’s been somewhat more pleasant to log on recently without this thread being active.

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I think the community “decided” that mods would not “police” the C-word.

The obvious solution is to add the C-word to our Discourse profanity filter. Why that hasn’t happened already is truly baffling.