Yea that’s probably it, this whole scene is very weird though, how palpatine is referring to him in the third person - and how would palpatine have known it? the whole thing’s a mess
the third person thing is the exact thing I was just talking about too. why does he refer to “anakin skywalker” in the third person like he isnt damn well aware who he’s talking to? well, because, it was convenient for the plot and where the audience was at that point. lol.
this is a little a fault of the prequels too and why lucas is such a retconning idiot and should be a cautionary tale why this kind of retconning behavior is so destructive.
when the films came out, no one knew how vader became vader. we just knew that vader killed anakin, then we find out vader is anakin. for all we knew at that time, the emperor himself didnt even know vader was anakin, so this was far less weird than it is now. I think originally it may have been the intention that this was vader’s secret.
In the Obi-Wan series, Vader tells his former master that Vader killed Anakin Skywalker. At this point, Vader thinks of Anakin Skywalker as a separate person and gets angry towards those who say otherwise. This is exactly how the Emperor had groomed Vader to think because Vader can’t be a loyal apprentice unless he cuts away the baggage of his former life.
Palpatine is manipulative and this compartmentalization enables his manipulation. Yet, this is the point where their relationship starts to break, as Vader realizes he’s been lied to. Whether Palpatine knows for sure Luke is Vader’s son or merely suspects it because of what he feels in the Force is irrelevant. How he knows is irrelevant. There are plausible ways he could have known. Every little detail doesn’t need to be spoon-fed to the audience.
Yes, it presented in a way that manipulates the audience, but it’s not wrong to do so.
this is all retconned though and not the original intention at all. it’s just retcon on top of retcon.
retconning is literary rape. If I enjoy a book and have accepted major plot details about it, and have cherished the memory of it for a very long time, and then some overly privileged fuckwit comes along and says “no, actually, you will enjoy it this way now forevermore” and changes major plot details, that’s fucking rape no matter how you look at it. I apologize for using that word but I can find no other to convey what I’m saying here.
Disney did one even worse by declaring the entire EU as non-canon and then making their own brand new retcons, which makes the whole thing even more fucking hopelessly confusing.
I remember all the disney starwars fanbois fawning all over that decision too, like “the eu is a mess and way too complex, it had to go.”
It’s not really retconning if there was no original intent. The original trilogy has a lot of Lucas making it up as he goes along. Deviating from your first draft is not a retcon.
The EU was full of retcons. I think I made it to halfway through the Fate of the Jedi series. EU continuity was too over-developed to make new movies that fit.
Honestly, you sound a bit like those people who whine that their childhood has been raped when a white male character is re-imagined as a minority and/or female in a TV/movie adaptation. It’d be reasonable to explain conservative rage over CRT and wokeness as being due to such things retconning their cherished understanding of American history.
I approach all this from a postmodern perspective, which means I deny the need for an objective in-continuity reality. I have no problem accepting overlapping realities. I see no reason for all of Star wars to exist in a single grand narrative.
The EU for the most part only enriched character’s stories and almost 95% of it took place AFTER the latest canon in the films, so I disagree that it retconned. I’m sure it did in some places, but the majority of the content was post-ROTJ.
The whole Yuzzhan Vong series was incredible and even Favreau himself couldnt come up with something as good. you cant even buy those books anymore, I think.
respectfully your comparison to a guy being mad about white people being replaced is dumb, I would not care at all if they change the entire thing if any of it was any good, much of it isn’t. The EU was enormously popular, to this day I can’t comprehend the arrogance around them completely chucking the source material and going on their own and coming up with what they did with episode seven, eight, and nine.
feel a rant about ep 9 brewing, god, it tilts me so bad. 7 and 8 could have been ok if 9 ended in a good way. they had sooooooo many satisfying ending options other than the dumpster fire they chose.
It’s been a while since I read the books, but my strongest recollections of what were retcons were them changing Han Solo’s line about the Kessel run from being a stupid brag that made him sound ridiculous to something that actually made sense, Boba Fett not being dead, and a few more Jedi and Force users running around than the original trilogy would have us believe.
If someone wants to buy the Yuuzhan Vong books, I am willing to sell my copies.
They couldn’t really film the Thrawn trilogy without recasting Luke, Han, and Leia with actors who could be more physical. If they wanted to use Hamill, Ford, and Fisher, they had to give those actors limited roles and have them pass the torch to a new generation.
I think they might be setting the stage to do something with elements from the Zahn books, but without Luke/Han/Leia.
I own most of the EU novels that are now all no longer canon. They had no choice to ditch them as making them into movies was not going to work. I do think they had some ideas that could have been used. Jacen/Jaina were pretty good and the New Republic and its struggles with the remnants of the empire are way better than all the stuff they came up with in the movies.
There are still some Legends novels that could work as movies. They’d be foolish not to use Darth Plagueis source material into a series/film about Plagueis and/or the rise of Palpatine. It still fits perfectly with the prequels and Clone Wars even though it’s technically not Canon.
I’ve been reading a bit more lately, but seems pointless to read Legends stuff now, so I’m working thru the better Canon novels.
I’m also nearly done with my rewatch of everything Star Wars. I just have Ep. 9 to go and then Bad Batch. I’ve been putting off the latter for awhile.
Rogue One was my favorite Star Wars movie outside of the OT, so I figured this would be good. It hasn’t disappointed me yet. Maybe there was a bit of empty space in the first few episodes, hopefully those were building towards something.
Yeah this is the kind of vibe I was hoping for when I first heard Star Wars TV was gonna be a thing, too bad it took four series to get to it.
Cynical take, but I really think Disney’s thing with Kenobi and Boba Fett was like “yeah so go ahead and slap something together and throw their names on it, all these stupid fucking nerds will watch no matter what.” Whereas with this show, it’s Disney’s own OC so they put extra time and $$ into making sure it was good.
Which is cool, lots of people did, but there was a ton of criticism heaped on both which I think was all justified. Like I thought Kenobi started strong, but then eventually every episode had like eight moments where I was like “how did they think this looked good/made logical sense/fit into character/didn’t fuck up all existing lore/etc.”? It was an entertaining show overall, but that shit was rough. And it doesn’t take too much of that in a show to just get me all irritated/disgusted by the end and wishing I hadn’t watched.
Andor delivers again. Sort of a slower paced episode but really building the drama and tension well.
Minor Ep 7 spoilers:
Even the Karn storyline or the stuff going on inside the empire, while definitely not the highlight of the show, is pretty well done. They need to do a good job bringing this all together but so far so good. The ending was a bit hokey, but proves that even in another galaxy, ACAB.
All of it is incredible. There was pretty much no action and I didn’t care. The Empire stuff is great, Cassian is great, and especially the Mon Mothma plot is awesome.
I’ve been wondering for years why we couldn’t have a show like this. Why does everything have to revolve around Jedi or a Skywalker. There are infinite possibilities. Boba Fett could’ve been awesome if it had been about his early days as a bounty hunter instead of whatever that was we got.
Also agree with gman’s take that they thought they could skate by with the Obi Wan and Boba Fett name and this is the first series that they’ve put in a lot of care and attention to detail and it shows.
I like all the imperial intrigue - it’s the first time star wars has ever looked at the empire from anything other than the perspective of the emperor/vader/luke