I’m not too concerned with what word we use but you can’t have a fruitful conversation when two sides are unknowingly talking about completely different things.
If we are really talking about a capitalist society where employees own the companies I say great bring it on.
Don’t really see how that solves the rent issue is the developer is employee owned.
They didn’t “just happen” to have the same name.
As I mentioned above ITT, the Socialism==Government usage is cold war propaganda disseminated by -both- the US -and- the USSR. It’s real world Newspeak, meant to limit freedom of thought, by “erasing” the name for the concept of worker control.
Not for you, because I know you don’t care for Wikipedia, but for any lurkers that might be interested…
Are you sure it wasn’t K.Marx who coined the term?
Sabo can speak for himself, but I’ll try anyway. No landlords != free housing. Multifamily housing owned by the occupants already exists. They are called housing cooperatives or communes. In some forms they are quite common in places like NYC.
I could be wrong, but I checked.
I don’t know the original source. I should probably read Proudhon, but I’ve boycotted him because he was such an antisemite. I probably agree with his ideas on how I’d like things to be more than Kropotkin, but Kropotkin is still my favorite because he was such an awesome guy on top of his theories being cool.
You are confusing construction workers with landlords again here. The developer isn’t relevant.
The analogy to worker control of the means of production is resident control of the means of shelter. Note: none of this implies communal or government ownership.
So, you’re now in agreement with this shiz…
I’m ignoring sabo. You and I got further in 10 posts then he has in hundreds.
If that is really the gist of this entire debate, we should have more cooperatively owned homes, then I say again bring it on.
I don’t see why that should preclude private homes as well and it doesn’t really address commercial real estate.
I suspect every person itt who has been on the “capitalist” side agrees we need far more socialism mixed into the current system.
But… nobody is precluding freeholders. Where did you ever get such an silly idea? I explicitly said that none of this implies communal ownership. It’s kinda like you don’t know how to read.
it doesn’t really address commercial real estate.
Sure it does. Worker control of the means of production already covers this.
Why aren’t more of these being built if there is nothing stopping it?
Why do ~50% of peeps own their own homes in the US, and ~90% in Singapore? Well, in Singapore ~90% of housing is managed using Georgist principles, while in the US it’s <1%. Bottom line…
Less rent-seeking => more home ownership.
I quite literally did not say that earlier but that’s not the point.
The point is that these conversations always get bogged down in arguments, dumb or otherwise, meant to provide cover for people’s views.
Insoooooo, for example. Probably the guy I was replying to.
This
I’m actually very precise with my speech.
Fair enough my bad if I misinterpreted you.
You’d have to be in your 60s to have dive bar’d during the cold war. Given the naive nature of the liberals ITT, I can’t imagine any of them are that old.
What’s hilarious here in 2020, is that the liberals are still scared of the long-before-their-time Russians, while the conservatives love the who-we-got-now Russians.
Liberals
Conservatives
OK, things have cooled down a bit again. Let’s check the score board to see how the liberals are doing so far…
Liberal “Arguments” in favor of returning to Our Pre-Pandemic Status-Quo (OPPSQ)
| Liberal “Argument” | Final | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Tina | L | LOL there are plenty of alternatives |
| Mr.Econ | L | LOL standard economics claims OPPSQ creates less wealth, not more |
So far the liberals are 0-2 in their quest to “Yes, But” rationalize away the OPPSQ, and all the violence and homelessness that comes with it. Are the liberals going to try again ???/? Or… have they given up and stuffed their liberal pie-holes with towels?
It’s all good and yeah, I was trying to be diplomatic by suggesting this should… give one pause, as opposed to writing something like this:
Imagine living through the 2020 Covid-19 Pandemic and seeing doctors and nurses from rich as sin USA#1 wear garbage bags and having the audacity to think your worldview is somehow
still intact.NOT UTTERLY DESTROYED!!!
…
