No need for self banning. I’m glad you acknowledge the word is dehumanizing. I’ve also been involved with organizing sex workers into a union. I’d love to hear your experience.
I am honestly interested in your take itt in general as you have far different views than I but I’ve learned a bunch already from you.
I mean, doubling down on calling sex workers whores just because it’s less offensive to you than other derogatory terms is a weird hill to die on. Sabo’s just given us a good example of how to not pick bad hills to die on.
Hotels are out.
Hostels can stay depending on their politics.
It would be, if I’d done it. I didn’t, though! All good?
Too bad @Sabo is gone.
The hotel is interesting.
Organizing is a big problem. I don’t know if the organization of that hotel was natural and easy and reproducible or took an enormous and unsustainable effort or was a complete stroke of luck.
Seems to me the crucial feature of any market - any free market - any system where the motivation for action is driven by speculation - is that it’s easier to organize (much less organized).
The internet can really suck.
Thought experiment especially for @Sabo - maybe when he gets back.
Take all the current rental property in the United States and give it to the occupants with rules that people all own a share of some housing, cannot sell or rent out their share. They may have various privileges based on their contributions to multi-family or communal properties or they may be left on their own on individual plots or whatever to be worked out by the residents/owners and their governments. They may own an equal share of a whole building or a share of common areas and all of their own space (condo vs. coop).
Some amount of totally undeveloped property would be added to this and people can build on it and trust that the government won’t bulldoze their work. Take more land and set it aside so future refugees from the rest of the US can find a place (people who default on property they “own” outside of the communal/squatter zones).
From that point forward landlordism is allowed outside the no-landlord zones.
I’d guess that there’d be a reasonable amount of rental property in the landlord allowed zones in a generation. And there’d be migration from landlord to no-landlord zones going both ways.
(assume constant total population)
(zones could just be one building, not like regions of the US)
I don’t know, maybe that’s not so interesting. One of the problems in this thread is everyone is taking too absolute of a position.
It was time for sabo to have a time-out. Hopefully if he returns he’ll be able to stop insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him.
I just want to say I enjoyed most of the discussion in this thread. I was introduced to several concepts and ideas I have never considered or heard of before.
Watched. Nice. Thanks. Encouraging, but not as encouraging as it would be if it didn’tl take a complete abandoning of property by the owners to lead to the “take overs”.
Yes, it does become a little easier when someone else has built and stocked the factory/warehouse that you then squat in.
I don’t think anyone would really argue that many businesses are run by the employees. However, you generally don’t get to walk down to the government services building and say, “I’d like one factory for me and my 200 closest friends, please” and then just get handed the keys to a prebuilt operation that comes with a supply chain, customers, equipment, and the thousand other things that go into building a functioning business.
It can happen without the factories being paid for by capitalists though.
That’s something I’d watch a documentary about it.
Still, even in the Wiki they mention the issue of not letting new workers into the cool kids “owner” club, which I’d say is a pretty big black eye for them from a power to the people standpoint. So you have an interesting situation where you’re using them as an example of anti-Capitalism, but they are themselves capitalists making a profit off the labor of others. Not really sure how to respond to that.
A quick Google tells me that they offshore labor to cheap third world countries, too.
Partial credit.
There are lots of pure coops at a much smaller scale, but a bakery in SF might not be as interesting as a global organization with tens of thousands of workers.
I’m well aware. One of our commercial tenants is a co-op run by some extremely high Bernie Bros.
Business had not been going well and they were 7 months behind on rent. They were bailed out by an independently wealthy outsider Bernie Bro who prepaid them up through August, but I doubt the current COVID-19 situation is helping them dig out of their hole.
It’s all that sweet Vermont green.
But did you read the thread on 22 with posts by a dude who apparently quite proud that did this to one of his tenants?
Not sure. Old or recent?