In Europe but absolutely nowhere else lawl
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How are you going to determine if the Ukrainian people want the US involved? Send in Quinnipiac?
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They will put roses out on their front steps.
Check what their elected representatives say? Or go by the polling data already posted ITT?
If you have evidence that the people of Ukraine actually want to be annexed by Russia, I’d like to see it.
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I don’t.
On another note I am interested in the age range of posters in this thread who are pro - arming and defending Ukraine against Russia versus those who are against, since this doesn’t seem to be breaking down the way other issues typically do on this forum. As someone who grew up in the 80’s, yeah, I have no desire to return to the 80’s, mutually assured destruction, and civil defense drills.
That’s not close. The falklands did not want to be Argentinian, and an Argentinian dictator invaded them.
I’m 100% open to what the best course of action is here. Whether or not it’s worth it to defend, arm, or whatever Ukraine here is something that I don’t have a strong opinion on.
What I do have a strong opinion on is who is to blame here: Russia and their shitty dictator.
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I can imagine there are some Euros maybe who were around in the 30s who sure and hell aren’t interested in going back to letting a butcher walk in and take whatever he wants In the name of “security” from a country that poses literally no threat to it.
you could read their constitution. seeking nato membership is ukrainian law.
Comparing Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler and 2022 Russia with 1939 Germany is quite a stretch.
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It’s way less of a stretch than comparing it to the UK “invading” the Falklands in 1982
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A police officer shows explosives to schoolchildren during a police-organized civilian safety lesson in a city school in Kyiv, Ukraine, on Thursday. (AP/Efrem Lukatsky)
So depressing - poor kids having to deal with this shit.
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I MEAN MAYBE RUSSIA HAS A POINT U GAIS HERP DERP
Yeah, call me when Putin tries to dismember a weaker neighbor using the pretext of a linguistic minority in the border region.
Do you think supplying Czechoslovakia with arms and doing nothing else would have helped?
If not, what’s your point? Either put 200k NATO troops in The Ukraine or go to DEFCON 1 and get your planes in the air or it’s just wanting to say how you think Putin is a bad man which is not an especially hot take. Or maybe you don’t trust the US/NATO to execute any of this, which would be smart, but surely just supplying arms and perpetual low scale war isn’t what you think is good for Ukrainians?
Fact is the EU/Europe/NATO and Putin are just concerned with how this affects the oil and natural gas supply. All this entho-nationalism and Russian chips on their shoulders and NATO defense of allies is a childish way of looking at this. The Ukraine imports about $7B total a year from all NATO countries and that’s not enough to make them important as a market. If we provide arms to The Ukraine the entire reason will be that it’s a gift from the US taxpayer to US defense contractors.
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So do you think Lend-Lease was a bad idea? Either declare war on Hitler or observe strict neutrality, no half measures?
I think you guys are way overcomplicating this. Putin sucks. Ukraine is fighting a starkly just defensive war against him. They need sophisticated defensive weapons, of which the US has many, to do so more effectively. Of the arms sales the US does on a regular basis, this has to be in the bottom quartile of dubiousness.
I understand the argument that it’s better for Ukraine to just promptly lose the war and have peace, but do people really believe that? Do you think US policy towards Rojava should be to avoid doing anything that would strengthen their defensive capabilities so they can be more smoothly integrated back into Syria? I don’t think it is.
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Asked my Ukrainian friend (lives in Dnipro, center east part of the country) and this was his response:
We are not in NATO block, but I think the weapons which the USA (and our friends from the EU) are sending to us - are good enough help. We have an army, we have people who care, and we will protect our country and independency against Russia’s aggression as much as possible.
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