That’s a good thing no? If we don’t want total victory for Ukraine whatever that means, because it risks nuclear war. Some sort of stalemate that leads to a peaceful negotiation that’s acceptable to both sides seems like a reasonable goal.
Maybe I should reevaluate, though. Boeing made money during WWII, too, so maybe there shouldn’t have been any holocaust survivors instead?
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Don’t any of us have jobs
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There are always some on the right who oppose foreign policy and some on the left who support it.
Nevertheless it’s largely the same assholes who supported the Iraq invasion that support fighting Russia, including several people here.
It might be news to you but the world doesn’t divide neatly into good guys and bad guys. Sorry to break it to you this way.
If the US had never supported Ukraine in the first place, then Ukraine and Russia might have come to a peaceful settlement before a war, without slaughtering tens of thousands on both sides. The fuck does the US care about who governs Donbas or Crimea?
Let’s go to the tape
Rofl.
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Libs, Cons and Neocons largely together. Happy?
Only if you’re also willing to grant that supporting a particular foreign intervention is not support for every foreign intervention, past, present or future, but since that’s the crux of your entire argument, I don’t think I’m going to be happy.
Turns out the world is complicated, and sometimes helping out good guys is good.
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Are you now claiming that you didn’t support the invasion of Iraq, or admitting that you did but that it has no bearing on your views re. Ukraine?
What you support sounds mostly like liberalism as a form of idealism in international relations. Keeed’s POV seems mostly consistent with a Marxist theory of international relations. That would seem clearly leftist to me.
Can you accept that a good and rational person might prioritize B over A?
How would the US act differently if it were waging a proxy war with the goal of liberation of Crimea and Donbas rather than prolonging the war to hurt Russia?
I never supported the Iraq invasion
Sure, presumably I am taking the time to debate with Keeed because I think he is rational. I just think it’s wrong and shouldn’t be the leftist position.
No matter how many times Wookie proves himself to be completely dishonest, people still love “debating” him
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I’ve moved towards using leftist mainly to describe mostly anti-capitalist ideologies and just anything right of center. I would say that standard American liberalism is non-leftist and often anti-leftist.
The Marxist interpretation of all wars waged by capitalist societies would probably be something along the lines that all of those wars are inherently bad because they are being planned and directed by an evil capitalist class using the lives of the working class as soldiers and causing collateral damage that mainly harms working class people, so all soldiers should thrown down their arms and go on strike against war and the military-industrial complex.
That’s cool, but I disagree with that definition of leftism.
Never said it was, not sure what the leftist position is on Ukraine would even be, and honestly don’t even know what leftism is. Is Chomsky an example of a leftist foreign policy guy? Because I’m probably pretty close to his position on most foreign policy issues.
I prefer this definition over NBZ’s “leftism = marxism” one
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Doesn’t really have very much to do with war and relations between states, no? Or if it does it merges indistinguishably with the interventionist liberal hegemony of Fukuyama, an ethos that gave us the Iraq war, Libya, Syria, and the last twenty years of endless and ever-expanding wars.