Fuck these horrid people
This is one of those areas where to me absolutely if it’s just kids let them play. But when you get to college sports, there is the potential for real issues with students who were assigned male at birth dominating women’s sports.
If you get to the point where even a few people who were assigned male at birth dominate women’s sports in the Olympics, it’s going to end as well as when the East German women were on so many steroids they were effectively male, and set insane records that still hold today.
I absolutely empathize with someone who’s brain has been wired to female despite their genitalia. I’ve known several. It’s clearly not a mental disorder. But in the human species - males have strength, size and speed advantages, - which don’t seem to be completely lost when someone transitions from male to female.
I think this is one of those issues where liberals need to stop and think, maybe pull back the reigns a bit, and look for a common sense solution. It sucks. It would be great if you could just let people compete in the gender they identify as. But in reality it gets really messy if you’re going to be doing stuff like handing out scholarships and gold medals.
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From what I’ve seen is that those bills suck in the reasonable by making this kind of argument, but end up being pretty heinous in practice. Have a hard time believing this is a problem of serious consequence that demands the federal government stepping in.
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The amendment is to prohibit COVID funds from going to k-12 and college schools that allow transgender girls to participate in girls sports. I see no reason not to call the amendment cruel. Just give them the aid.
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Yeah that’s horrible.
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I agree with both you and suzzer.
I think real competitive issues exist, but they should he handled by sport governing bodies, not congress.
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Supposedly the GOP pushback is from some new policy advocating that trans women can compete in female sports in college. I have not looked into any of this I’m just reporting something I saw in derpoland.
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100% agree. Too many lefties attack people with this opinion as bigoted and it’s a bad look. It’s very reasonable take.
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Hi mate.
This is an issue ive spent a lot of time looking into. Both because its a hot topic in rugby and because my brother is trans so its close to my heart.
This is 100% a wedge issue used to justify horrendous transphobia. On the surface most people immediately think of elite male athletes competing and hurting women. Its why its so effective. It seems like the “common sense” take.
Governing bodies doing this properly are getting medical advice and working through the issues with support from trans organisations.
Theres like 0.1% of justification to the view that there should be restrictions. That 0.1% is however just used to beat on trans kids trying to play high school soccer.
Any focus on that 0.1% tends to just lend support for the tranphobes. Its the equivalent of talking about justified police shootings of black people.
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“But in the human species - males have strength, size and speed advantages, - which don’t seem to be completely lost when someone transitions from male to female.”
I started transitioning almost three years ago now. Before I started I wasn’t in great shape but I used to do push-ups every now and then and go on runs and walks and doing things like cutting the grass was easy. Now I’m exhausted after walking back and forth a couple times with the lawnmower. If someone had a gun to my head I would have probably been able to do thirty pushups at least. Now I can’t even do one. I literally cannot lift any part of my body off the ground. Trans people are not a threat. Conservatives just like kicking us.
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Also worth adding that with a few highly amplified exception, its not the cis women who play these sports complaining about it.
Cis women in rugby are mainly like “have you seen some of the monsters we play with already, getting smashed is what we sign up for.”
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I feel the same way about letting people over 6’4 play basketball. No one without that advantage is ever getting close to a rebounding title.
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Just about every sport at their highest levels are dominated by genetic freaks.
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I think the justification is much greater then .1%.
There are legitimate physiological issues and it’s not just about the trans people.
When considering inclusivity and fairness we can’t choose just to consider one group and wholly ignore another who is equally impacted.
It bothers me a bit that people try to scare off an earnest discussion on these issues by decrying transphobia.
I get hateful and transphobic people co opt these issues for bad, but that doesn’t change the reality or legitimacy of the underlying concerns and issues.
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Why do you think cis woman nominally don’t complain about such things?
Do you think they just don’t care? If so why do only women not care? That in and of itself is a bit of a giveaway.
I am not advocating for anything then people keeping an open mind and looking for the truth. Not really a fan of this rush to clamp down any opposing viewpoint especially when there is legitimate science involved.
In case my point in the first paragraph was missed what if females are genetically predisposed to being less “competitive”, inherently when it comes to physical competition than men. And what if their lack of issue is just full acceptance but more of that playing out.
The point is I think it is 100% absurd to pretend like there are no factors at play in physical competition around these issues. It’s a very complicated issue without a lot of nuance and I think the immediate shouting down of the issue in the name of transphobia is pretty gross.
My last post was of course snarky but to put it in more welcoming terms, it’s textbook discrimination to say the advantage that some trans women may have in some sports is unfair and should result in limiting their participation while ignoring other individuals’ advantages that are just as much based in luck/genetics.
How would you explain this to a suicidal twelve year old just told she has no choice but to sit this out or play with the boys?
Not even an extreme question or uncommon situation for people with transgender experiences. You may not intend malice, but that’s the impact of amendments like these and casual chat that leftists need to make compromises here. You are not asking the leftists to give ground here. You are asking a marginalized population to give ground for something that was never within their control.
Not politicians. Not parents. Not siblings. I mean the young trans kids who already live in a world that mostly insists they don’t deserve to exist.
These wedge issues and the solutions proposed so far are not helping young trans kids born with body parts or hormonal effects you think disallow them from participating any more than if you applied the same standard to a kid born intersex or just with a hormone profile indistinguishable from someone you’d describe as a trans-beneficiary athlete.
Those are the people you need to consider how to explain your position to. Labeling it transphobic isn’t to indicate malice on anyone’s part. It’s to indicate that regardless of your intentions, your position has transphobic effects that hurt actual trans people.
I would say the same to a conservative explaining why their positions technically aren’t racist and definitely don’t hold malice. Sure! But look at the impact and maybe you’ll find that while you may have feelings and concerns you’re not willing to discard, the way you shape those into a position and advocacy may need to be reconsidered if the goal at least in part is to say fuck you to politicians and start showing care to the trans people being affected.
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I know Cis women were in a massive uproar when a trans female was fighting in MMA and brutalizing cis women despite clearly having little to no skills.
In fact this is pretty normal from what I’ve seen. Lots of cis woman have spoken out when a trans female dominates their sport. I know it happened with wrestling as well. I think it happened it weightlifting too.
Do you think Michael Phelps should have been disqualified from competing simply because his mother fucked a shark? He clearly had a huge advantage over every single other person he competed against.
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Should leagues be allowed to discriminate on gender at all?
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I really struggle with this issue as it’s incredibly complex and really pushes the ability of what science and medicine can tell us about what constitutes a fair vs. unfair advantage.
I think there are two things that are front of mind for me:
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Transphobic people can weaponize arguments in bad faith to discriminate unfairly against trans people.
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Those arguments have merit and should be discussed in a way that is considerate to all people involved. Just because someone raises issues of competitive fairness regarding transgender people competing against women does not make them transphobic.
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