The world would be a lot better off if we took every person who did that “Indian American, feminist, mom, wife” type of Twitter bio and shot them all into the sun.
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My 2020 litmus test for progressive is DTP. All of that other shit you guys listed is from forever ago.
I feel genuinely bad for you knowing how much of your self worth is wrapped up in your ability to tell the world who is and isnt a bad person.
The difference is, you (and most people here) define progressive as a set of stances in various issues.
I define it as a…mindset would be the best word, I guess.
Here’s a very simple analogy (not perfect, but good enough):
Who was more “progressive,” the Tortoise or the Hare?
Defining “Progressive” as a mindset renders the term completely meaningless, as we can imagine our favorite people to have whatever mindset we want. People, myself included, did this endlessly with Obama. “Oh, he obviously is in favor of gay marriage, he just knows he can’t say it out loud yet” or “Obama would probably like single payer, but he’s doing what he thinks is realistic”.
The thing is, your mindset doesn’t fucking matter one iota. What matters is what you do, and for a politician that means what policies do you push for. Not “what policies would you really like in a perfect world”, what policies are you voting for and advocating for today.
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Funny you should say that, for it’s exactly my point.
In a perfect world, we want the same thing. In a perfect world we want single payer. We want free college. We want to end fossil fuel dependence. Etc etc.
I view steps toward those goals as progress, thus, people who have those goals and advocate for policies that move us toward those goals are progressive.
My point was that people who are pushing for expanded ACA or a public option should be viewed as preferring those policies, and that we shouldn’t care whether their secret hearts actually want single payer. I guess the term “progressive” can mean whatever you want it to, but it is silly to give someone credit for preferring single payer when their healthcare plan is not single payer.
Honestly I also find it hard to believe that you want single payer. Pete obviously did not, and attacked the idea constantly.
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It’s not necessarily useless. If we look at the Progressive Era of American history that began in the 1890s, we can characterize it as a period with a mindset of reform and scientific efficiency rather than tying it to specific policies such as Prohibition and women’s suffrage.
It depends on if you are looking for a term to delineate factions within the Democratic coalition or if you are looking for a term to unite them. Someone like skydiver clearly has a preference for the latter.
some steps are incongruent with each other, e.g. building on top of aca, vs replacing with m4a. that’s like my entire problem with berniebros who don’t consider obamacare as progress and adopt the republican repeal-and-replace stance.
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Here, this right here, is my biggest issue with your “faction” or whatever you want to call it. Wanting to take a different path to the same goal does NOT mean that someone is against that goal.
For example, wanting a strong public option as a path to achieve single-payer is not the same thing as being “against single payer”. This “you’re either in agreement with my specific plan or you’re my enemy” type of thinking is what drives me batshit crazy.
Here’s my better metaphor:
You’re playing an RPG. You’re level 2 or 3. You are being “chased” by a slow-moving death fog. There is safety and a ton of treasure in the castle in the distance. You need to reach that castle. You come to a fork in the road.
One fork is a twisting road through forests, farmlands, and maybe some swamp. There are groups of low-level bandits near that road, along with a couple of caches of potions and scrolls. The road is winding and long, but not very difficult.
The other road is a straight shot to the castle. It’s also guarded by a level 20 dragon and a 50-ft tall brick wall that you cannot go around. You have a bit of climbing gear, and 1 resurrection scroll.
which path is more progressive?
But Pete’s lying to you about the dragon.
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If Pete had single payer as his end goal he wouldn’t have spent so much time talking about how unrealistic it is, how expensive it is, how he “trusts the people to make the right choice when it comes to their healthcare”, etc. Come on, I know you know this.
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Y’all talk about Pete more than I do. Can you please reread my post and try not to think about him?
Man, i really want to start a gimmick account now so my ideas can be taken seriously without you strawmanning Pete into everything I post.
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Pretty easy to spot Pete-style wine cave billionaire propaganda regardless of whether his name is mentioned, what account it comes from, etc
Skydiver posts, doesn’t mention Pete, and Pete gets instantly mentioned. What a surprising turn of events!
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Yeah we should really stop talking about an unemployed failure of a small town mayor
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It’s an establishment dem talking point to defeat actual single payer at any cost. It doesn’t matter if it’s Pete, Harris, whoever. They’re lying. They’re owned by the insurance companies. They’re never going to do Medicare for all.
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lol gtfo with this gaslighting bullshit. This convo started 2 days ago when she posted the following and josh replied to that asking her a genuine question. As you can read below, she brought up Pete in the first place because she couldn’t understand how some view Obama as more progressive than Pete
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I mean it’s actually more accurate to say that Pete, and Obama, and Hilldawg, and Harris, and Joe “Nothing will fundamentally change” Biden ARE the dragon. They’re the obstacle to Medicare for all.
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Yes please!!