I can maybe get on board with that, but aside from futility there’s no contained way to exercise that kind of violence. Collateral damage is inevitable, and it may be one thing to accept the righteousness of slaying your oppressors, it’s another to accept slicing through bystanders in the follow through. To accept that, most people would need some logic of destination, because that is one bloody journey.
There are unfortunate casualties in all wars
I was mostly joking there. If I had to pick an accurate metaphor I’d go with that other French dude who said something about pushing boulders up hills.
It’s also worth noting that the historic examples of atrocities by the left are outnumbered by those on the right by about eleventy bazillion to one.
A lot of environmental consulting involves conducting environmental assessments and figuring out how to comply with environmental regulations.
THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
Mark Twain
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Yeah, I maybe didn’t hit this point quite clearly enough, it’s just interesting that the guillotine is a symbol for getting rid of rich evil people when the late revolutionary government under Robespierre was using it to get rid of the destabilizing elements on the ‘left’, leaders among the sans-culottes, the enrages, etc.
This is just another variation of the trolley problem. Some people die if you go too far. Some people die if you don’t go far enough. Is it wrong to advocate guillotines for people standing in the way of addressing climate change because someone like Clovis might get his head chopped off?
One of my favorite quotes, but counter point: Mark Twain died in 1910.
Is it wrong is a heinously contentious question. Some think it is some think it isn’t. I guess my only point in what you quoted was: when justifying collateral damage, you are basically forced to take some consequentialist position that the ends justify the means (because the people who get hurt don’t deserve it), rather than having recourse to a retributive justification when you are hurting the people who you think do deserve it i.e. rich evil oppressors.
You don’t have to be a consequentialist to justify collateral damage. One can believe in the doctrine of double effect, holding that an action can be morally permissible despite negative side effects, if those effects are unintended, even if they are foreseeable.
This is a shiity talking point if you’ve ever had a toothache, itchy butt, or have slept in the cold. There is a basic level of material comfort modern society that is insanely better than any hunter gather. I think everyone should be provided at least a decent minimum level of comfort. But, even in the US the vast majority of people who do not have a long term medical condition or mental illness (in which case they’d already be a dead hunter gather) has a standard of living above billions of current people in the world. Now, the fact they they may not have hope, or friends, or loved ones, or their dreams have been crushed is another issue, but I’m talking about access to basic material goods and food.
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Of the multiple debates in this thread, I think a debate about people earning $1M/yr who work or own a business vs ppl making $20k is kinda blah.
The problem of the modern economy is leverage (and access to it) and the structure of ownership and taxation of wealth and capital gains that allows people who took some fairly minimal risk to reap all the rewards and extract of society’s investments in the populace, infrastructure, education, rule of law, etc. such that they can accumulate insane wealth and then spend it on insane political projects that harm society. Like the one founder owns 40%, the second gets 10%, the third 5% and the next 100 another 10%, investors the rest and then it’s just wages.
Well society in general should get a much larger share of the wealth that society creates, which has the positive result of things basically being better for everyone, including the top 0.00001% (who can travel on good roads and don’t need to live in armed compounds). We should structure things so society is less like a winner take all tournament and more like a top 50% get paid and bottom 50% get a refund (which is possible thanks to growing productivity).
A good start to that is to arrange a tax system where the wealthiest pay for everyone to have healthcare. And where they shoot your dog if you use tax shelters or offshore companies that grew and prospered due to US law and society.
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Somewhat true but mostly not and you are mostly wrong about the lives of hunter gatherers. And I’ve had toothaches, itchy butt and slept in the cold.
You’ll notice Clovis agreed with me and you might expect from his screen name that he knows a lot about hunter gatherers.
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I don’t want any violent revolution.
And, yeah, a lot of people essentially have to eat shit to get by. (Use up their lives working jobs they hate) Another way may be possible, but for most people, given their environment, it’s basically impossible for them to see it.
Don’t bring dogs into it!
I heard a saying today that was something like, “aim to give your dog the best possible life it can have and you will have the best possible life you can have.”
I think this is pretty true. My last dog had a brilliant life. I took her everywhere possible with me and she was extremely good at keeping up with me bike riding and loved to go to the beach and frisbee and do all the fun things in life. Plus she was super loyal and loving. She made my life pretty fantastic. I need to try harder with my current dogs, they have a good life but not as good as my last dog.
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I love cats too, but the expression there could be: “give your cat the best possible life and stay in bed all day every day until you die from bed sores.”
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Clearly you have had some crap cats. My cat used to come for walks with myself and my dog. My dog was initially slightly peeved about it until she realised our walks doubled in time due to the cat alternating between sprinting sections and then hiding to make sure it was safe to continue. She was a very cool cat.
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He was talking exclusively about pitbulls.